Jetting!!! Again and again and again!

[gowen]

Have you seen this link?
http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/carbtuning.html

Wow, that's some good stuff, what is funny, I used to basicly hoard that information from justkdx and dirtrider. I had, awhile back a '87 KDX200, then purchased a '95 kdx200, and fallowed the tuning information religiously. Good stuff and information, thanks!

[Paul]

Pull the needle out an check which one is in there. You might be running the leaner needle, if so get a stock one. Either way try moving the needle higher in the circlip. The pilot is going to effect the idle, the needle the mid-range the main mid and top. Keep increasing the main until it starts to falter then drop it one. The 58 main, some needle work and a cleaning and I'll bet that thing will be awesome

[kawdude]

Cool!  I think I'll follow your lead on the 170M.  In reading your post it sounds like initially you thought it was rich but by adding the 170 you've made it richer so I'll assume that now you're thinking it was originally to lean???  That may be my issue as well.  When riding and using the new main was the engine smooth midway and up?  Paul's comment above regarding the 180m jet surprised the heck out me...seems huge.  However, he's the expert and his comments are always worth noting.

Mine did not idle with the original 58p but when I installed the 55p I could get it to idle after screwing with the air screw.  I'm not saying it idles well though!

[kawdude]

Keep increasing the main until it starts to falter

Paul, can you describe term falter?   I understand the definition but what will the engine do when it "falters"?  Are there any other tell-tales signs of the engine faltering?  I'm asking just to be clear.  I do understand that a ~1" stream of mix shooting out the silencer would be bad and past "faltering"!!!

[ruputa]

Hey Kawdude...I'll buy your KX from you for $100 bucks. hehehe

[Paul]

You'll notice a drop in power when it gets to be too much, from there just back it down one. a 180 is what I run at the dunes and my brother in laws CR550 (bored 500) runs a 185M @ the dunes.

Keep increasing the main until it starts to falter

Paul, can you describe term falter?   I understand the definition but what will the engine do when it "falters"?  Are there any other tell-tales signs of the engine faltering?  I'm asking just to be clear.  I do understand that a ~1" stream of mix shooting out the silencer would be bad and past "faltering"!!!

[gowen]

Kawdude, I did not really have problems in the high-end, it would just load up in the low. That is why I'm suprised that changing the main up 10 notches has made such a diffrence. I will make more runs after work (6pm) and take the bike out for more tests. I moved up to a 52 pilot and can not get it to idle, even after screwing with the air screw. But, last night I dipped the carb for a few hours and cleaned it off, so it's looking new now and used compressed air to blow the holes clean (main/pilot/ect. ect.), I will fire it up and try to get an idle tonight, it so (hopefully), I'm hoping to find it lean and try to richen it up, maybe a 55-58 or something like that, but right now, I'm feeling rich at a 52.

As far as the main, I'm getting awesome results with the 170. I will purchase some larger jets and hopefully find the median. I do not to alot of WOT runs, like the desert, but am thinking that I could always richen it a bit. I did measure the float height according to clymer, but I'm a bit confused. I am reading about 22mm. Isn't clymer talking about 15-17mm. Which has me confused. If I raise the float, that richens it up. I may also be reading the float wrong, you turn the carb upside downwards? or do you let it rest in the needle without pushing the little springy thing in, am I correct? That is where I measured it. But, if the float needs to be fully resting in the needle, then I did it wrong. But, it looks like I'm seriously lean. But, I was complaining about so much smoke and black plugs..  

Thanks all your help, I'm hoping to get this thing running good!  <--I had no motivation until I killed most the vibes with the bars and solid mounts! now, it's the only bike I want to ride. -->

[kawdude]

Float level...
Check out this link>>>http://www.dirtrider.net/justkdx/floatlevel.html

It should give you the info you seek   With what you're saying I thinking that mine very well could be lean.  My concern is the rough sound midway and up...could be pinging .  I can't say that mine is loading up down low...it just wouldn't idle.  

Be careful dipping your carb.  There is an oring shaped like O-O.  That can be damaged by certain chemicals.  This oring thing is not available for purchase unless you by a carb.  I have read posts that talk about ruining this with dipping but they are probably referring to boiling the carb.

Kawdude, I did not really have problems in the high-end, it would just load up in the low. That is why I'm suprised that changing the main up 10 notches has made such a diffrence. I will make more runs after work (6pm) and take the bike out for more tests. I moved up to a 52 pilot and can not get it to idle, even after screwing with the air screw. But, last night I dipped the carb for a few hours and cleaned it off, so it's looking new now and used compressed air to blow the holes clean (main/pilot/ect. ect.), I will fire it up and try to get an idle tonight, it so (hopefully), I'm hoping to find it lean and try to richen it up, maybe a 55-58 or something like that, but right now, I'm feeling rich at a 52.

As far as the main, I'm getting awesome results with the 170. I will purchase some larger jets and hopefully find the median. I do not to alot of WOT runs, like the desert, but am thinking that I could always richen it a bit. I did measure the float height according to clymer, but I'm a bit confused. I am reading about 22mm. Isn't clymer talking about 15-17mm. Which has me confused. If I raise the float, that richens it up. I may also be reading the float wrong, you turn the carb upside downwards? or do you let it rest in the needle without pushing the little springy thing in, am I correct? That is where I measured it. But, if the float needs to be fully resting in the needle, then I did it wrong. But, it looks like I'm seriously lean. But, I was complaining about so much smoke and black plugs..  

Thanks all your help, I'm hoping to get this thing running good!  <--I had no motivation until I killed most the vibes with the bars and solid mounts! now, it's the only bike I want to ride. -->

http://

[kawdude]

Hey Kawdude...I'll buy your KX from you for $100 bucks. hehehe

Sure!  Send me a blank check and I'll fill it out for you

[ruputa]

quote]
Sure! Send me a blank check and I'll fill it out for you
[/quote]
You wait by your mailbox...its comming ! haha, If you are like me, sometimes you think about giving them away when your having trouble

[gowen]

Well, I just got back from tweaking and tuning it and here goes:

Cleaned the carb, air dried and blew the holes with compressed air. Needless to say, it was mint. Anyway, I still have the 170 and 52 pilot.  I decided to give it a shot. No idle! I have the screw on the idle screw all the way in! this is at 2 turns on the air. So, I give it a run........ WOW! Great mid-top end. Jsut what I like, but I really like the bike to idle so I don't have to gas it every time I clutch it. So, I am thinking I am rich down low. Well I'm at a 52 pilot, I unscrew the air screw to 3 turns out. Did nothing. Checked the reeds again, look new. I drop the needle one notch.  (lean) and it does not help, helped the mid range but changed the top end. I like it in the center. It did OK with the 45 pilot. I'm confused. If I move to a 58, it will richen the low end up and take more away from the idle. Is something wrong! I opened the holes in the air box wondering if it would lean up. But, did not help.

I did remove the spring from the idle screw and if I screw it absolutely all the way in, it will idle fine! The screw is not worn at the tip and there is no marks on the slider.

[gowen]

Apon looking at my needle it reads: R1366N???

Is this correct? I ordered a "stock" needle.

[kawdude]

Thinking outloud.

To make the bike idle you need to raise the slide farther than normal by removing the spring.  Does this mean there is not enough air getting thru to hold the idle or not enough gas getting thru to hold the idle.

More air needed = leaner setting
More gas needed = richer setting
 

I tend to think that you're not getting enough gas when the slide is down.  Although, on mine leaning the pilot did make it idle better.  However, I did cut a little off the spring...d**nit.  I tend to make too many changes at once!

Does the raising the clip, aka dropping the needle, change the idle properties?  I don't think so but changing to a different slide # would either by leaning it or richening it.  But that should be necessary.  I have a 7 slide also but I think the standard is 6???

I think when the slide is down the needle has not reached the tapered part so when the slide is raised using an extended idle screw you may be reaching the taper and that may = more fuel in the throat.  So if you dropped the needle and leaned it out that would = less gas when the slide is down at the idle position.

I like to ramble about s**t that I no nothing about but it is kinda fun!!!  However, I do think we're getting somewhere.

I hope the experts read these latest posts!!!

Well, I just got back from tweaking and tuning it and here goes:

Cleaned the carb, air dried and blew the holes with compressed air. Needless to say, it was mint. Anyway, I still have the 170 and 52 pilot.  I decided to give it a shot. No idle! I have the screw on the idle screw all the way in! this is at 2 turns on the air. So, I give it a run........ WOW! Great mid-top end. Jsut what I like, but I really like the bike to idle so I don't have to gas it every time I clutch it. So, I am thinking I am rich down low. Well I'm at a 52 pilot, I unscrew the air screw to 3 turns out. Did nothing. Checked the reeds again, look new. I drop the needle one notch.  (lean) and it does not help, helped the mid range but changed the top end. I like it in the center. It did OK with the 45 pilot. I'm confused. If I move to a 58, it will richen the low end up and take more away from the idle. Is something wrong! I opened the holes in the air box wondering if it would lean up. But, did not help.

I did remove the spring from the idle screw and if I screw it absolutely all the way in, it will idle fine! The screw is not worn at the tip and there is no marks on the slider.

[kawdude]

This I don't know.  That number means nothing to me.  Mine is the standard N82xxx one.  That may be a Keihin number and not a Kawasaki number.  

Info on that number...
http://www.dirtrider.net/justkdx/jetneedles.html

Apon looking at my needle it reads: R1366N???

Is this correct? I ordered a "stock" needle.

[gowen]

Well, I changed the needle back to the 3rd clip. Which took me all night, as I rounded the head off the screw-like-thingy that holds the needle in. Ended up breaking it in half. Well, thank God I have a spare parts bike!

Anyway, on to whatever. I dropped the needle to the 2nd clip. It helped nothing except I gained more power down low, but it felt like it hurt the top-end by not letting it hit the powerband.   So, The needle and the main are good. I'm thinking more on the lines of the idle screw. Kawdude, I believe #7 is stock according to my Clymer Manual. I do happen to have a #6 though. But according to justkdx it will richen it, which from what I'm learning, leaning it out will make it idle. Thinking about that when I'm running out of gas it tends to Rev and rev until it completely runs out of fuel.   So, I am guessing I'm too rich down low. I did conduct an experment. I turned the gas off and let it try to idle.I helped it until it started to empty and low and behold.. It idled!   for a few seconds then tried to did the full rev thingy and I quickly turned the gas back on as not to hurt it.  

So, I'm thinking I need to lean the bottom end. Being at a #7, to lean it, I would need to try a #8. But, as my mid range seems ok and so does the top, I believe the slide does work with the mid range too. The pilot I believe is the main objective to idleing. Being I'm at a 52 and came from a 45. It puffs smoke a bit. But running a 45 pilot, it would idle but very slightly and most of the time would kill within a 10 seconds or so.

Using a 52 and 3 turns out on the air screw (which is the same as 2.5 I think) it would try to puff along, but would die within' a second. So, like I said eariler, it would chug with the spring removed and the slider pushed slightly, but this is going to the 1/8-1/4 throttle and I believe it is lifting the slider to the point of the (taper) where it is using the 1/8 position to idle, I don't think this is good. I believe the pilot should be kicking in even with the slider all the way down. I could be wrong though. So, should I drop the pilot to lets say like a 40 and see if it idles? I hate to sacrifice a nice bike for something as stupid as idleing  though.  

Looking at the chart, what is I.M.S.? Should I try to run without a air filter just to idle? That would eliminate any questions as to a oversaturated air filter (which I dont' think it is).

My only options are to try to remove the air screw, kinda allow ALOT of air and/or change the pilot jet to something lower than a 45 as it was still having troubles. I'm just talking about sitting still no riding. What;s your guys thoughts?