KX60 HELP! In need of rebuild!

[crazyolbastard]

Remember,  make one change and check results.
DO NOT make more than one change without checking your progress
( or lack of ) , your doal here should be to figure out what one change can do.
For example:  if you repack your yz silencer -  your jetting could be spot on.
Do all the simple stuff,   clean filter, fresh fuel at the correct ratio,
first before you deside which way to go, if at all, with the jetting.
You have a great coach who is willing and able to help.

Good luck young man.

Lookin forward to your results.

Out

Crazy   

[chris-mets]

well could i just buy 32:1 premix for the yz and put that in without changing anything? will that work?

CHris

[Friar-Tuck]

  Read this:  Two-Cycle psycho
http://www.maximausa.com/lube-news/summer01.php

[chris-mets]

Hey tuck,

I read the whole article and I tried fooling with the air screw and it seems that the air screw does nothing to how the bike is running...and it was running at a standstill for a minute and a ton of drool already there..

Chris

[Friar-Tuck]

Hey Chris,
  The right side of the picture goes to your airbox and the left side of the carb goes to the engine.

Look at the arrow/line for the air screw (down and to the right), follow the path of the air as it mixes with the fuel of the pilot.
 This is the pilot circuit showing the air screw allowing more air (or leaning out) the fixed amount of fuel introduced by the pilot jet.  (don't be misled by the pic, the pilot and Air Screw are always open regardless of the needle and slide position)

(The top right inset in the pic is looking down at the air screw)


 Check this link out for the whole article, I know it may be long and boring.  read a little at a time and come back and Finnish later.  but it does a good job of explaining the whole nine yards :
 http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/carbtuning.html


  Get yourself a notebook or binder,  it doesn't have to be fancy. 
We need to record what changes we make and how the bike ran.

You asked earlier if you can run 32:1 in both bikes.   

 Yes, we can jet both bikes to run with 32:1 
That way you only have one fuel can, but I would strongly suggest a good pre-mix oil, preferably synthetic.
 
If you want to tackle this, which bike do you want to work on first?
 
   If you want to start with the YZ, you will need to remove the carb and write down the Numbers of the jets and what clip position the needle is, in your notebook.

If you want to tackle the KX we will need to get the next size smaller pilot.

  Let me know what you want to do.   

  Tuck \o/

[chris-mets]

That picture makes me understand a little more. I think I want to start with the kx since it is probably more simple and we already know all about it. So if I buy a bigger or smaller pilot jet this will fix the problem of all the power loss and bog? Let me know what I have to buy from that jetsrus site and ill go ahead. Also do they combine shipping costs? cause 7 bucks is a lot of money to ship a jet so Im thinking if I buy the yz and kx jets altogether it will be cheaper? Let me know. Im glad your guiding me through this. Thanks

Chris

[Friar-Tuck]

Hey Chris,
 Yes, they will combine the shipping. 
 If I remember when you were working with the carb on the KX, the bike ran better when went from two to three on the clip, and there is a bog off Idle until the engine picks up.  that sounds like you need more fuel.  since there is no air screw to help fine tune that pilot circuit, I say get the next size larger pilot.

Before you do anything with the YZ. 
  Lets see if the pilot is anywhere close.  Warm the bike up and pull it in to where you work on it.
Shut it off and we are going to re-set your air screw.
 
 Turn your Air screw in until it gently seats. 
        The end of the air screw is easily messed up so you have to be careful.

Now you need to turn it out (counterclockwise) 1 1/2 turns.   
  Find a spot on your carb or make a mark so you can count in 1/2 turns of the screw.
 (watch the flat of the screwdriver)   
   
 Go ahead and start the bike and take a spin.  how does the engine re-act better or worse ?

If you don't notice any difference,  shut the bike off and  turn the air screw in, a half turn (this will richen the mixture by cutting off some of the air mixing in the pilot circuit)
 
start the bike and take another spin.  Better, worse or still no difference?
  No difference?  Turn the air screw in another 1/2 turn.  Start the bike and take another spin.

There is only a half turn left in the air screw.  if you didn't feel any difference in the performance,
we start over.   

This time after gently seating the airscrew closed,  we will open the air screw 2 full turns from gently seated.  we are going to lean the pilot and see if we have an improvement.
   Take the bike for a spin.  Better worse or no difference?

Bring her in and shut down the bike.

    turn your air screw an additional 1/2 out (leaning out the pilot circuit some more)

Take the bike for another spin Better Worse or no Difference
    Take another 1/2 turn out (continuing to lean out the pilot circuit)
You should see some difference at three turns out.   

It probably takes longer to read all this than it will to test your airscrew/pilot.

 You will know if the engine picks up any better or not by the time you hit the end of the driveway!

Report back with what you find and we can go from there.

  If you want you can give me a ring tommorrow while you are testing.
  Tuck\o/

 
 

[chris-mets]

Ok good to hear that they combine shipping. Im pretty sure my kx has a 30 pilot jet  so I would go 32.5? or 35? or am i thinking the main jet? Ill check in the manual tomorrow. With the yz, I will try what you said to do. When you say gently seat the air screw, do you mean to screw it all the way in? THanks

CHris

[Friar-Tuck]

Yep You got it.
 the end of the screw is pointed. It fits in a tapered seat.  If you crank down on it it could ruin the carb body as it is not repairable, or mushroom the end of the screw (remember its brass)

  You will be fine, you can give me a ring after 8am my time.
    Tuck\o/

[chris-mets]

Ok so I gently screw it in all the way...And what would I go on the kx? 32.5 or 35? and is it the main jet or pilot?

CHris

[Friar-Tuck]

  Chris,
 Yes you will Gently seat the Air Screw in on the YZ.  and then back it out 1 1/2 turns (to start testing above post).
We are going to dial in the pilot first, just like the write up suggested.
    Remember the pilot circuit will always be allowing fuel and air through the carb, whether you have the choke on or off, the throttle is closed or wide open, the pilot circuit is always allowing air/fuel in the engine.

  Have a look again at the piccy.  The pilot jet is blue.  Do you see where the opening is  on mouth of the carb? 
         The air (green bubbles below the red air flow arrow) entering the pilot circuit is regulated by the air screw, as the air passes through a small passageway in the carb body it mixes with fuel from the pilot jet and continues through the carb through a small hole just downstream of the slide valve and enters the engine.

     

I'm pretty sure the next larger Pilot for the KX is the 32.5   
 There are no guarantees this will be the correct one, I'm sorry but this is trial and error.
  Just like when you moved the clip on the needle, we won't know until we try it.
  It's up to you if you want to go to the 35 and jump up two sizes or not.

  I'm Sorry Buddy but Without actually being there to see and hear what's going on I just have to make a best guess.
   I can tell you if your running rich and blubbery or lean and popping, if you are short shifting or over-revving just like most of the other guys, but we're not there.
   It might take a little time for you to recognize what the bike is doing or needs.  But hang in there, we'll get it.

             I'll tell you what, I will buy any of the jets you order and can't use.   If you get the 32.5 and we end up getting a smaller one or larger one I'll buy the ones you don't need.   Same goes for the Mains if we need those.
  You can't beat that.  You just have to get them so we can see if they work.  The only other option is if I buy the jets,
have them shipped to you and then you ship me the ones you don't need.
   Let me know what you want to do.
              Tuck\o/

[chris-mets]

Tuck,

I will print out what you wrote on your post about the yz and how many turns and stuff. Then Ill try it and let you know what happens. Im pretty sure this is normal but the choke on my yz you have to hold up and it doesnt stay up. I think it would be easier and quicker if you just ship me the jets for the kx then I try them and I use the one that works and pay you for that one and ship the rest back. Also one more thing i was wondering. When you start my bikes by just rolling into second gear does it harm the bike? Also does shifting without the clutch harm it too? Heading back out to the garage now and tryin the yz air screw adjustments. Later today both my gold chains for my yz and kx are coming so I have to put those on too. THanks

CHris

[Friar-Tuck]

 

it would be easier and quicker if you just ship me the jets 

 
   How did I know you were gonna go for that!

 Oky Doke, we have a #138 main and #45 pilot in the YZ
                      and a #200 main and #30 pilot in the Kx
 
   After some testing, Chris found the bike responded favorably the further Out the Air Screw was turned.
What is happening is by allowing more air in the pilot circuit (leaning it out) the bike runs better, this tells us we need a smaller pilot jet as the current one is too rich.
           
  Roll starting isn't really too bad, as long as you are using the clutch. 
    But kick starting should be easier than pushing, jumping on and dropping the bike in gear and popping the clutch.     
   
Shifting without the clutch is a tricky subject.   I would not recommend it at your stage in the game.

If you are pushing the bike down the drive, jumping on and stabbing the shifter in 2nd without the clutch to get it started,  That's  REALLY bad for the tranny...     

 Tuck\o/

   

[chris-mets]

How do you use the clutch to roll start? I remember when I tried using the clutch to roll start it didnt work...when I roll start I jump on the bike and push forward a little then kick 2nd gaer and both bikes start right up...I most of the time kick start though...How do you use the clutch for rolling it?

And I find shifting without the clutch really easy for me...

Heres some pics of the yz carb:

[Friar-Tuck]

 

And I find shifting without the clutch really easy for me...

I think if you understood what happens in the transmission when you shift gears you wouldn't shift without the clutch anymore..

To push start the bike using the clutch, put it in neutral, run a bit to get started down the drive, jump on and grab the clutch, click the shifter up in second or third and let out the clutch.    The only difference between your way and mine,
  is that by using the clutch to put the bike in gear its easier on the transmission.
     The wear and tear on the clutch is the same, but the clutch is much cheaper to replace than the gears are.
   
The Carb

 Put some rags on the jaws of the vice it won't scratch the carb.
 
   If  you turn the carb 90 deg to the right (clockwise), you should be able to hold it in the vice on the sides of the body, the mouth of the carb (large bell end) outside of the jaws.   I suppose it will be O.K. the way you are holding it, as long as the vice isn't too tight.  I just never tried it like that.

 Oh yea, I copied this from the Jets-R-Us site.  I usually receive them in three days...
"Thank you for your payment! NORMAL TRANSIT TIME IS 5 to 7 BUSINESS DAYS
Your transaction has been completed, and a receipt for your purchase has been emailed to you."
  The jets are on the way...
   T\o/