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Author Topic: Okay. Need Help with brakes  (Read 6808 times)

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Motorrad

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Okay. Need Help with brakes
« on: October 30, 2010, 03:54:48 AM »
 I feel really dumb for having to ask for help. as I have been restoring and working on motorcycles for 25 years..  Never had a problem till now..

The brakes on my Kx WILL NOT BLEED...

Front caliper is off a 2008 Kx450F.. came off a new bike,
Front master is off a 2006 kx450F..  (same part number in the parts fish as 2008)
Hose is aftermarket steel braided..

Story.

I intalled all said parts, with new crush washers of course..  tryed to old fashon bleed it.. nothing... so I got out my hand pump system and put 30PSI vaccume on it... sucked about 1qt  yes 1qt of fluid through it. nothing..

so since I had squishy lever (no pressure) and NO LEAKS anywhere, I figure i needed to rebuild the master....

so I rebuild the master,, inspect, the bore looks good, put in new seals, piston etc... (not my first rodeo).

Hook it up to my Vaccume bleedeer again... suck about 1/2 qt through it... NOTHING....

So I have heard you have to reverse bleed some ....

so I hooked it up to my turkey baster, and ran about 6 resivour full worth..

NOTHING

no leaks from the caliper. or any where else.. NEW crush washers TORQUED TO SPEC.

Only thing I can think of... is the hose came with a fancy aluminum banjo bolt, and I put in a stock one...  But that shouldnt make a differance, banjo is a banjo off the same caliper.......

all it will do is rattle the pads...

ANY WORDS OF WISDOM ARE APPRICIATED
« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 03:58:26 AM by Motorrad »
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Offline kwakman

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2010, 04:08:26 AM »
I know its a long shot, but maybe something wasnt drilled out properly or some material was left in the system somewhere causing a blockage? Cant really think of any other reason.....keep us posted.....maybe use this braking system but first swap out the caliper, try it, then the brake line, try it then the master cylinder using your original parts to swap out to find out which part is playing up?K.
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And lo, I did loft the front wheel and carried it forth to the unbelievers, and cast it down before them and said unto them ''look now upon the might of my throttle control ye pitiful cretinous ones''
And the unbelievers did quake in their boots....

Offline kwakman

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2010, 04:12:11 AM »
I also know from personal experience when something is getting on your nerves iuts easy to overlook something simple.couldnt start mine for a month after my mechanic mate had taken carb apart.he put the floats in upside down.(vm40ss)
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And lo, I did loft the front wheel and carried it forth to the unbelievers, and cast it down before them and said unto them ''look now upon the might of my throttle control ye pitiful cretinous ones''
And the unbelievers did quake in their boots....

Motorrad

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2010, 04:12:23 AM »
Quote from: kwakman on October 30, 2010, 04:08:26 AM
I know its a long shot, but maybe something wasnt drilled out properly or some material was left in the system somewhere causing a blockage? Cant really think of any other reason.....keep us posted.....maybe use this braking system but first swap out the caliper, try it, then the brake line, try it then the master cylinder using your original parts to swap out to find out which part is playing up?K.

I have the caliper off the 2006 I was going to put on today to test..


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Offline ShadeTreeFab

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2010, 05:05:04 AM »
when i switched to the same 06 master cylinder i also had this problem, i had to run the adjustment screw on the lever down real far.
after that it worked great. it seemed like with the lever adjusted right the plunger wasn't moving far enough.
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Motorrad

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2010, 06:32:38 AM »
Quote from: ShadeTreeFab on October 30, 2010, 05:05:04 AM
when i switched to the same 06 master cylinder i also had this problem, i had to run the adjustment screw on the lever down real far.
after that it worked great. it seemed like with the lever adjusted right the plunger wasn't moving far enough.

Have it screwed all the way in...
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Offline cbmoor

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2010, 07:09:18 AM »
Try taking the caliper off and lay it on its side and then try bleeding it again with it off on its side. Maybe there is still trapped air in it. I had this problem with a street bike and thats what i did. You got to think where the bleed screw is and where the volume of fluid is in the caliper. hope this helps
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Offline BDI

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2010, 07:38:45 AM »
Maybe the screw is turned to far in and its not letting the piston in the master return all the way. also I had put some after market lines on my gsxr1100 one time and no matter how hard I tried I could not ever get a good lever so I put the stock lines back on and problem went away.
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Offline martinfan30

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2010, 09:05:28 AM »
I had this sameproblem before. I actually got pissed and left it sit overnight. First thing in the morning, I pulled the lever, and d**n! It felt perfect! Must have let a bubble of air up into the top of the reservoir overnight...
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2000 KX500
2005 XR650L

Neither are stock, and both are great desert bikes.

Offline kaw rider

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2010, 09:23:51 AM »
pull the brakes off the bike and put the caliper in the vise and master clinder on the bench and then try bleeding.
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Offline BDI

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 12:19:42 PM »
Quote from: martinfan30 on October 30, 2010, 09:05:28 AM
I had this sameproblem before. I actually got pissed and left it sit overnight. First thing in the morning, I pulled the lever, and d**n! It felt perfect! Must have let a bubble of air up into the top of the reservoir overnight...
you know they say if you put a rubber band around the lever to the bars and let it sit over night that it will let any air in the system rise to the top because the master is held open.
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Offline don46

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 12:37:21 PM »
I am in the process of finishing a 2502t into a AL framed 250f, try as I might it could not get the brakes to feel to my liking, I loosened the allen bolts and the darn thing was perfect, tighten it and terrible. so I did a little bit of research and found the caliper didn't line up with the rotor, and when brake was applied it would cause the rotor to deflect, so I machined the spacer a bit to get the rotor to line up in the caliper better and now alls good. so while applying brakes see if the rotor deflects
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Offline martinfan30

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2010, 03:16:18 PM »
Quote from: BDI on October 30, 2010, 12:19:42 PM
Quote from: martinfan30 on October 30, 2010, 09:05:28 AM
I had this sameproblem before. I actually got pissed and left it sit overnight. First thing in the morning, I pulled the lever, and d**n! It felt perfect! Must have let a bubble of air up into the top of the reservoir overnight...
you know they say if you put a rubber band around the lever to the bars and let it sit over night that it will let any air in the system rise to the top because the master is held open.

Know what, now that I think about it... Thats exactly what I did. This was on a Maxim 750. Worked great.
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2000 KX500
2005 XR650L

Neither are stock, and both are great desert bikes.

Motorrad

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2010, 04:28:39 PM »
I tryed every single thing everyone has mentioned.. (except the spacer)... so went to look at it today... and FOUND THE PROBLEM....

pics to be posted
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Motorrad

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Re: Okay. Need Help with brakes
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2010, 04:16:02 PM »
Okay.. here is the problem

The spring clip under the pads...

I have done 1000's of brakes jobs on motorcycles... NEVER HAVE I run into one that would do this..

If you compress the pistons (caliper) all the way or to far... the lip on the pads will drop behind this spring clip... Only alowing the pads to go so far....

Because of how its in there... it only restricts the travel of ONE OF THE PISTONS.... so when it does get to the point of restriction, it only sits there and rocks the pistons back and forth (one to the other)... causing the leaver to feel  like there is nothing there (pull to the bars)...


New one on left.... one that got caught on right
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