diga -tron data aquisition systems dt 50

[stewart]

i have seen  the constant jump in hp in the 4800  to  5400 rpm range ..............if you want my opionon  i think its the kips opening piont that really kicks in the hp

[mdw471]

I am really excited about what the Digatron offers us, however, all this talk about dynos reminds me of standing in line at Bonneville.

On the first day, up and down the tech line there was a lot of bragging about amazing dyno pulls. And of course, all these guys already knew how fast they were going to go.

Three days later, I was in the impound line waiting for the bike to be measured for a record and all the fast old-timers were talking about how there is really only one true way to measure performance... running on the Great White Dyno.

 

Mark

[k5abuser]

i know when we test the bike we use the same dyno settings every time and only change the weather settings for that time of dyno . a dyno is for tuning and seeing what gains or losses you make with every change . i remember getting a reed block . we thought it was going to help  because it looked so good . great craftmanship but when the wheel of doom was spun it showed us that it cost us a 20 HP loss. ive raced guys that say their bike makes this hp and than out run them knowing that my bike makes less hp than what they claim for theirs . so the dyno is a tool for tuning . you know what it runs by the seat of the pants and when the light turns green the BS stops .  flying nine wacthed their motor on the dyno and then saw me ride 4th and 5th gear wheelies down the street . i am sure they will tell you it hauls and that it will run ahead of all most everything they race . stewart and me enjoy what we do and only want the best we can get out of the k5 . bench racing is great but it sure is nice to have a record or two or three or four to back it up .  we will be doing more testing as the weather and time permits us .

[Hillclimb#42]

Stewart,
Is that a real 20 HP jump in 400 RPM? Or is it a product of the crossover @ 5252?

i have seen  the constant jump in hp in the 4800  to  5400 rpm range ..............if you want my opionon  i think its the kips opening piont that really kicks in the hp

Does that result in a strong mid range that could be smoothed out for ridability? Isn't that also a goal? To get More Power and/or turning more Rpm's, but keeping a smooth power delivery?

[k5abuser]

 we ride an area with woods and rocky dirt hills . i can climb some steep hills in second with the motor just above idle  and it pulls hard with no hint of bog. it will pull the front up in 4th gear with my 300 lb butt on it at 40 mph easy . or ask stewart how it climbs step loose terrain with him on it. a lot easyer to ride with the extra power be cause the motor runs smother and you dont have to whip it wide open to rev the motor to its sweet spot because with the extras it just pulls like a frieght train on nos when we do all the lil tweaks . i remember the first time stewart and me went and hammered the kx 500's  . we came back to the shop and said %^!& thats fast . now when we get back from a ride we just look at each  :evil:other and ask whats next . need more power.

[Hillclimb#42]

I definately am not turning my nose up to your R&D. I can only guess how many times you have taken test rides on bikes with twice the power, that I have been on. I see the many insightful posts plus all of the accomplishments that you guys have collectively.
  My concern, from my standpoint only probably, is that the 500 can be ported and modded to the point of being hard to ride at Hillclimb or similar style racing, like drag racing. Just trying to discover if those amazing torque and power mods that work so well for top-end is a rideable combo for bottom and mid range. Remember when I asked you what would happen if you pinned the throttle and dumped the clutch in second gear? You recommended a good life insurance plan. I know Stewart builds for top-end, massive hp and reliability. I give Stewart more credit for keeping the reliability as a priority, than if it was only about print-outs on the Dyno. He also mentioned to me that there is an emphasis on keeping them with ridable power.  My imagination says that would be a linear power curve, without a huge dip or hump, but I am truely clueless, so I am asking you, the experts, the wise of the k5's.
  Has there been anything you could tell me about mods that worked for power, but didn't work for real world rideability, or how the focus of your work prioritizes power, torque, reliability, rideability.
  My best friend had a Pro Circuit highly modified 500 and ended up wadding-up everyone who rode it. It would not ever clean out in neutral, then when the rider dumped the clutch it would usually crash them before going 50 feet, as it came to life and took off like a rocket. It never bogged, but was deceptive to the point that noone was ever ready for it to launch that hard. The bike got passed around, until eventually noone wanted it, even though most of the motor had been chrome plated. That is just one story that I have about kx500's being hard to ride after modifications.

I know that the absolute difference in what you guys do and what all other engine builders do, is that those guys work on every make and model of motorcycle, so they would be forced to generalize in the mods, where yours have been specific to this bike only. That has to wind up with the best results. I just wonder if the same things work for top speed  on the Salt Flats or paved dragstrip, as for a 200 foot drag race or hillclimb.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, Hopefully I'm not straying to far from the topic. Thanks for the info....   

[stewart]

i am very interested in driveabilty and relbilty  ....first....  now that being said i have always seen on any engine build  v8 or dirt bike people want top fuel power wether the need it or not ..then they  all want toyota reliabilty......then they want it to have electric motor smooth ness.............all at once ,,,,,,,, i think  i am getting very good driveabilty and reliabilty  out of the k5 motor but the k5 motor is  a  great motor from stock  they are very well thought out  and reliable  and all we as a group our doing is enhanceing these fetures

[Larry Wiechman]

Ever notice how the new owners want to hop that sucker up to the max, and the engine builder wants you to build a correctly assembled stocker with only conservative improvements?

[k5abuser]

 

 hillclimb#42 . the bikes we build work in all areas . i can lug it in 4th and never feel i have to down shift unless you are going below 40 mph up a very very steep hill with in reasons. watch the vids on youtube under my user name k5abuser . some good vids of us just luging the bike up some hills that are loose terrain and over 1100  ft to the top of the hill . listen to the motor work and remember i am  about 300 lbs. the vids are in HD too .
 
 the engines do pull on the top but gain on the bottom too . we have yet to feel like the k5 motor can not preform on the bottom like it should .stewart launches in 2nd gear with no problem . well one need more traction .

[Hillclimb#42]

Great responses. Very good points that you make, Stewart. Guys like me want to double their power without losing anything. Cake and eat it too. Can you adjust mods to suit application or do you feel that your best mods work for everyone?
 
  I have watched the vids k5abuser. I like the chat pile vids. Video just doesn't do the bike justice, IMO. Do you have new ones? I am 100% sure that you are getting awesome results, but I was kinda poking around with stuff I know very little about theoretically, and even less in real world. My 500 has lugging power, too. I'm not lacking anything there really. My focus would be how I could run the bike wide open in 2nd gear. Maybe turning more r's than stocker would be good. Bottom and mid that I brought up is my own thoughts that I need a strong launch and always recover from breakers and even a mistake. More power in that range would allow for taller gearing, too.
  The wheel never quits spinning during a winning hillclimb. I know that seems like that can't be the fastest way, but it is. Think of the the spinning of the tire acting like a clutch in a way. Lots of spin off the log, then as the bike gets going, acceleration can happen with no wheelie. No wheel spin on a hill means you have to get out of it and set the wheel back down. Its mind over matter to hold it pinned and get it off the log.
  Thats kinda what I meant too, Larry. Other engine builders and even suspension mods seem to be very directed to what the bike will be used for. I have been getting advice to do the "correctly assembled stocker", (mainly because I trail ride it too) but racing guys that have done everything that they can to theirs. Having that internal battle about what I would need to hang with the competition (if anything). I have kinda been doing bolt-on mods a step at a time, gradually getting confidence built-up to really hammer it, but still wound up 2nd. 3rd year in a row. 

  I don't mind telling you guys almost doubling my current compression and power has me confused. For one, how it is possible, and two how anyone could ride it without being tossed off the back. You guys are awesome.

[kaw rider]

A engine builder that builds a motor off the data from a data logger will make the bike alot faster then what the rider think he needs. This is how i build motors.

[mdw471]

Just trying to discover if those amazing torque and power mods that work so well for top-end is a rideable combo for bottom and mid range.  I know Stewart builds for top-end, massive hp and reliability. I give Stewart more credit for keeping the reliability as a priority, than if it was only about print-outs on the Dyno. He also mentioned to me that there is an emphasis on keeping them with ridable power.

Hillclimb#42 - I chose the KX5 motor for land speed racing because...

1. 500cc is a good class
2. a single cylinder needs only 1 of everything
3. the KX5 motor is tiny

Most all of the 2s race engines used on the salt are high rpm bikes, ie a 50cc on NOS that spins to 13,500 something. Road racing enignes have port time durations that differ from MX bikes. By design, the KX5 makes torque horsepower, not high spinning/RPM power.

To be honest, I wish there was more top-end potential in the KX5 motor for LSR, but it is still a MX motor....port timing, KIPS valve, big round chamber, etc.

Stewart has figured out how to build Kawasaki's design into a better 'hunting dog' without loosing any of the original's great traits. When we run down the track, it sounds more like a big ole tractor than a hyped-up piece of run away lawn maintance equipment!

Mark

p.s. The bike is still really quick and more than fast enough to set three more ECTA records this past weekend....'tractoring' right into the headwind!