shifting with out cluching?

[turtle22]

so i find myself speed shifting ALOT(in non binding situations) on straightaways hills. i drive truck for a living and never use the cluch to shift that& i find myself liking the smothness i get out of speed shifting. so my question is , is this bad for the cluch? what are the side effects that i dont know about. i use the cluch to stop and start and feathering it in tough spots. and yes i go up and down gears. im very smooth when i do this. the bike does not learch or buck. let me know. i love my K5 and dont want to do it undo harm(i do enought harm riding it )

[jfabmotorsports.com]

Hey Turtle, You shift your truck, assuming its a semi type, without a clutch because it doesn't have synchronizers. The syncros job is to bring the clutch plates to the proper speed to allow a smooth shift. Autos and light trucks have them. If you never use your clutch on your kx ever again you will never wear the clutch out unless you have a Stewart engine that is capable of driving through the max clamping force of the clutch. almost every racer on smaller bike don't use the clutch to shift. It becomes a factor of pulling the bike out of gear not putting it back in. I never use the clutch to down shift.

[Motorrad]

I have had to fix many motors (not mine) due to this...   Its HELL on shift dogs...

[KTMEXC125]

what about the transmission? how hard would speed shifting be on the tranny? i recently broke the lever off my hydraulic clutch and part of the master cylinder on my ktm on a tiny slide out. i wanna keep riding until my new master cylinder comes in but i dont wanna hurt the transmission

[martinfan30]

Over time, I think it really does wear out the dogs. I do it, but not all the time, and never under a load.

[Johnniespeed]

I only use the clutch for starting out, or if in a special situation, I may slip it a little. I have never had any transmission issues with any motorcycle. My old red bike, I could upshift under full power without the clutch.
  Of course I dont reccomend this for others,but it is what I do. I also change transmission fluid once a week.

[Hillclimb#42]

Obviously the important thing is to let off of the acceleration, during the upshift or to wait on less decceleration on a downshift. Its harder on the dogs, if the motor is under a load one way or the other. Mis-timed shift can be the hard part on the tranny. Transmission problems suck, so i just give the clutch a quick pull, but I do alot of non-clutch shifting on our yz125.  I put the magura hydraulic clutch on the 500, so its easier on the forearm. The pull is so fast during a fast section that I'm not sure its much different. Possibly faster shifting with clutch, since the load is takin off of the motor with the lever instead of rolling off the gas. The throttle movement is much less when aided by the clutch. Maybe its better on the transmission to use the clutch during aggressive riding and OK to not use it during a medium to slow pace. I have no experience fixing transmissions, just some shifting them.
  KTMEXC125, its just dangerous to ride without any clutch. I have had to ride from a crash back to the truck without a lever and its not fun. You can't ride for fun. You can ride it for transportation from point a to point b, but it sucks. Its like deciding to ride without brakes. You think, no biggie, I'll use the other brake, then when you need to stop, your reactions have you stomp on the pedal, even though you know it won't work. Motosport Outlet will 2-day that to you for no extra charge. Their list prices include tax, shipping is free on orders over 150 or 200.(it changes)
 

[Good]

I didn't expect to see so many people shifting without clutching.  When I was little racing an RM60, my uncle told his son that if he caught him using his clutch after the gate dropped he'd pull it off the bike.  He was on a YZ80.

After this, I began to try both, with clutching, and without.  I really think I'm quicker if I keep a finger or two on the clutch lever for multiple reasons.  I slip my clutch out of corners to get the maximum force out of the corner possible without blowing up the back tire, among other situations.

One of the magazines did tests on this very subject like 10 years ago and determined that their test riders were like a second a lap faster when they used both brakes and clutch.  I'll look see if I can google up anything on the subject.

[turtle22]

thanks everybody. it seems like im riding like a lot of u out there. i do use the cluch coming out of corners and in ruff spots. but i find that(maybe cause i do drive a big truck) that i get real smoth shifting without it. i have a lot to learn about riding a dirtbike, i can not speed shift my harley. way to much horsepower going to the back wheel for that.im just afraid of learning bad habits now that i will regrate years down the line.

[Good]

Here's some junk I found:

http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=02A1E1DBEA2247C8AB91AC06A147EE30

http://www.gsmxs.com/tips.htm

http://www.atlanticmx.com/howto_clutch.shtml

[Dutch-K5 Fan]

Use the clutch!!!!! Your gearbox would love it!!!
Or If you have enough money to replace your gear, shift on load!!

I mostly keep the throttle full open and use the clutch a bit to shift up.

On a K5 I can't get it done shifting up on full load without the clutch.


Dutch

[KXcam22]

I started racing when I was 11 and haven't used the clutch since (for shifting).  My 78 husqavarna 390 used to wear the dogs but none of my newer bike have shown any ill effects. My K5 lasted 14 years doing this and still shifts great for the NO.  I do use it when climbing, braking and cornering. My wife and kids don't use it either (but then I guess I taught them). I actually think speed shifting may be harder on the trans but have no proof. I won a race once with the throttle stuck WFO and using the kill button to shift gears. Cam.

[turtle22]

CAM ur awesame the kill button to shift. never would have thought of that

[jfabmotorsports.com]

Cam... You are your own air shifter! 

[Johnniespeed]

KXcam22, love that story about winning the race with a stuck throttle using the kill button to shift.
  I have driven many old Beetles with a broken clutch cable, and once with a broken throttle cable, ( you do have to wire the throttle at half open ).
  One more note, since I dont use the clutch to shift, my left hand doesnt get as tired on long rides. And if I ever did have trans problems, (which I highly doubt) I can fix it myself.
 John