urgent

[GDubb]

this was posted on a different site. maybe big brother got a hold of it.

Unfortunately that pic IS sad. Thats like when you see a truck on the 4x4 sites showing off their articulation by driving up a tree. Fueling the hippies' fire    ...and bad parenting. "How cute... Junior's eating brake dust!"


-G

[turtle22]

So who's life is being saved by not allowing me to put my son on a brand new KDX 50? I'm still waiting for that answer. I cant put my son on a brand new bike like millions of kids before him were allowed to because YOU and someone like YOU think so? THAT is sad. Any more of my freedoms you want to take away? And once again... WHO'S LIFE IS BEING SAVED by MY unwilling sacrifice? Not YOUR sacrifice because you could give a s**t whether my son got the bike he's been wanting for over a year or not. So I should go buy a used bike.... but WAIT.... didnt someone say I cant even buy parts for a small cc bike anymore? So I should buy a used bike with who knows what wear and tear that I cant even fix? Are you kidding me? But you are going to put a condescending "That's sad" because I'm not happy that my son and I have to suffer for YOUR cause?  Still waiting for the documented cases of lead poisoning from a dirtbike to validate all this BULLs**t. Maybe if you had a son thats been waiting for a new dirtbike and you had to look him in the face and see the disappointment in his eyes, then maybe you would at least TRY to see someone elses point of view. Do you have a son that is going without his new dirtbike? Then who are you to tell me its no big deal? Not to mention the economic effects on the dealers who already purchased these bikes from the manufacturers and have them in their inventory. Dont they have to pay taxes on anything in their inventory? This is hurting AMERICANS FIRST and the foreign manufacturers SECOND. You're like a gun control lobbyist thats never touched a gun in their life, but still tells other people who have experience with firearms and practice firearm safety on a regular basis that guns are too dangerous for them to have. For you its a political "issue", or a product standards "issue". For ME its PERSONAL. My toes are being stepped on while yours stay in the clear. Thats fair. But at least you hippies have something to shake your pom-poms about. 


-G

so i have to play devils advicate, at what point to we excapt sub standerd product because of our want (or our childs want)? where do we draw the line. if not here then why say at our food products? is tanted meat really that bad for u? jack in the box made great kids meals with it and it only hurt/killed a few ppl on the over all scale of the population of this country. so here is wher i agree with u i F*ck'n hate the goverment for all the bs they do do us in the intrest of helping us as a ppl,and im sorry for the hardship this has caused ur kid,i coment his hard work to save the money to get to this point, but u would not let ur kid buy a bike that u knew had a faulty fuel tank or bad brakes, why something that has been on the books for years(no lead base paint) should not be fixed? the motorcycle companies had to know the paint had lead in it, they just dont care about ur kid or any other americans kids.they just want our money. yes the dealers (may)take a hit,sorry for that, its the nature of business, but the makes of these bikes will fill the most impacted. there by making them abbide my our standards.

[GDubb]

STILL waiting to hear of ONE factual case where somebody was actually hurt or killed by "the lead based paint on a dirtbike" to warrant this "emergency response". Sounds to me like its just nit picky. (Valley girl voice)... "Ewww... lead."  Is that really what its all about or is somebody besides American families who want dirtbikes for their kids REALLY suffering? If they took ALL bikes/parts and not just the kiddie bikes/parts off the floor then I think the rest of you would be singing a different tune. But it doesnt really affect you now does it? Its easy to expect OTHERS to suffer for your cause.... just ask Hitler. Do any of you that are defending these actions even have kids? Have a kid that wants a dirtbike? Has a kid that HAS a dirtbike?


-G

[turtle22]

yes to both ur questions. i have an y 8 yr old & a 14yr old(both girls) my 14 yr old wants to ride my 500. but because im a responsible parent i do not because she MAY get badly hurt. i make her wait untill the time is right(that maybe never) it sucks that we as parents must make chooses for our kids(even ones they dont like and/or understand) beause it has been proven(maybe not in dirtbikes) that lead paint cause long tearm damage to kids when exposed at a young age. and thou it may take away from there fun right now i think that the wait is worth it for there(yours and mine)well being. the companys that make the bikes are not just going to stop making these line of bikes,there going to change the paint and life will return to normal&and ur son will get the chance at that sparkling new dirtbike he has had is heart set on.

[maddoggy]

this paint thing has been brought up over and over in this thread. the paint is not the only issue. i talked to the owner of the local honda shop and here is the meat and taters of what he said.

 "i talked to a rep at honda and he said that this ban covers every component of these machines that violates the ppm lead rating that the government passed. the guy said that even the engine block would never pass the test. there is way more than 600 ppm of lead in the alloy used for the engine block, and thats just one example."

remember, those were word right from a honda corp. rep. not my words. my opinion on this issue is kind of a blend of the posts by BDI and the posts of don46. i think the government is doing the right thing here by controling the lead content of kids toys but holy crap my kid isn't going to be eating the paint or any other part of a bike. i used lead sinkers on my fishing line from the time i could walk and i still use them. like every other person, i would use my teeth to tighten the sinker on the line. i'm kind of a tard but i'm sure it isn't caused by my exposure to lead. this is a real catch-22 issue for me. MADDOGGY
 

[don46]

maddoggy, you hit the nail on the head, it's not just paint and it has nothing to do with China, even though they may have crappy products that have lead. The point that most people are missing is that almost every component in bikes, atv's, cars, kitchen faucets, computers keep adding to the list, they all contain some lead and would be banned if they were for a 12 and under. to get where some of you want us, we might as well get rid of everything we own and live in caves again.

There is an article in USA today, in the opinion section, where a peditrician is quoted as saying that cases of lead poisoning are dropping every year. And if you would like them to drop further go to the inner city and clear out some of the old projects that were painted with lead paint.

Like maddoggy, as a kid I went fishing everyday, and used my teeth to pinch the split shot together, and to my knowledge I don't have lead poisoning

[BDI]

You know, I'm not sure about the new standards or how realistic they are. A year ago "my kids" were walking around the house with fake vampire teeth in their mouths. The next day there was a recall on the teeth because of their lead content. They are sending all kinds of crap over here with lead in it. Even crap that has no reason at all to have lead in it, has lead in it. We gave the Dalai Lama some stupid prize that pissed off the Chinese people and I'm sure there's other reasons they hate us. So they intentionally send stuff to our Country that has poisonous levels of lead in it and flip us the bird. This is a strait up attack on our Country, more then an attack on our Country it is an attack on our kids. The reason they have been able to do this is because the spoiled Americans can't live with out their goods and if anyone tries to stop the flow of goods from China the spoiled Americans will flop on the floor and throw a fit and blow snot bubbles untill they get their cheep lead tainted goods from China. If you think this has nothing to do with China you have bumped your head and yes there is more to do with it then lead paint,that's my point.  As for the tree hugging hippi thing are you F-N kidding me, you have no idea. I'm all about kicking ass and going to war if It's called for and we are at war with these guys and we need to fight back I would sooner fly over there and kick their ass but banning their crapy goods is a start. Now if I thought this ban was forever I would be tripping out but I'm sure it's not. So your kid has to go for a few months with out getting a brand new bike that's a very small sacrifice for the better good of our Country and children. There are alot of peoples kids that make real sacrifices for our Country you should count yourself blessed if that is the largest act of sacrifice your child is ever called upon to make for this Country. By the way this ban is not my fault nor is it "MY CAUSE" I had nothing to do with it. I do think it sucks that motrocycles got caught up in this it's a shame. I do have kids and they do have bikes and they will have bikes in the future If I have to whittle them from stone with my bare hands.

[maddoggy]

You know, I'm not sure about the new standards or how realistic they are. A year ago "my kids" were walking around the house with fake vampire teeth in their mouths. The next day there was a recall on the teeth because of their lead content. They are sending all kinds of crap over here with lead in it. Even crap that has no reason at all to have lead in it, has lead in it. We gave the Dalai Lama some stupid prize that pissed off the Chinese people and I'm sure there's other reasons they hate us. So they intentionally send stuff to our Country that has poisonous levels of lead in it and flip us the bird. This is a strait up attack on our Country, more then an attack on our Country it is an attack on our kids. The reason they have been able to do this is because the spoiled Americans can't live with out their goods and if anyone tries to stop the flow of goods from China the spoiled Americans will flop on the floor and throw a fit and blow snot bubbles untill they get their cheep lead tainted goods from China. If you think this has nothing to do with China you have bumped your head and yes there is more to do with it then lead paint,that's my point.  As for the tree hugging hippi thing are you F-N kidding me, you have no idea. I'm all about kicking ass and going to war if It's called for and we are at war with these guys and we need to fight back I would sooner fly over there and kick their ass but banning their crapy goods is a start. Now if I thought this ban was forever I would be triping out but I'm sure it's not. So your kid has to go for a few months with out getting a brand new bike that's a very small sacrifice for the better good of our Country and children. There are alot of peoples kids that make real sacrifices for our Country you should count yourself blessed if that is the largest act of scrifice your child is ever called upon to make for this Country. By the way this ban is not my fault nor is it "MY CAUSE" I had nothing to do with it. I do think it sucks that motrocycles got caught up in this it's a shame. I do have kids and they do have bikes and they will have bikes in the future If I have to whittle them from stone with my bare hands.

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!!!!

[bigbellybob]

i don't know how well this fits into this thread but, i new this country was F^@# when everyone started celebrating Independence Day by waving little American flags that were made in China. i bet there is lead in them too.

I do have kids and they do have bikes and they will have bikes in the future If I have to whittle them from stone with my bare hands.

I'm with you there. my kids will be riding no mater what.

[maddoggy]

here is a link to the cpsc that shows the law. http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09086.html           look for the part that says the ppm limit will drop to 300ppm in august 2009.
                                                                                            this is a quote in a salt lake city newspaper article that i found on the internet. thought it was very interesting. these lawmakers literally don't even know what was affected when they passed this law. well anyways, here is the quote.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"The law could push kids onto larger, more powerful machines if the ones running with engine displacement between 50 cubic centimeters and 100 are no longer available, said Fred Hayes, off-highway vehicle program coordinator for Utah State Parks.

"We're concerned that the federal government may force kids to ride adult machines, and if that happens, we'll see a lot more accidents," he said.

Even the agency administering the ban understands that the law may be counterproductive.

"It is critically important to the Consumer Product Safety Commission that youth models be available because we are the federal agency that has investigated numerous deaths involving young riders who jumped on to adult-size ATVs," said spokesman Scott Wolfson.

But the agency said it does not have the authority to exempt an entire class of products from the ban, and is reviewing thousands of products to decide if they meet the new lead standards.

In another twist, the Consumer Products Safety Improvement Act went into effect on Feb. 10, even though the deadline for public comment on how the law was to be implemented ended a week later, on Feb. 17."

[ID KX500]

Congress rarely thinks ahead to the consequence of their laws,,, just how politically good it looks or sounds at the time. The devil is always in the details as we see here with CPSC,,, this is most likely NOT what was intended. US Fish and Game turned loose Canadian Wolves in Idaho to reintroduce wolves supposedly to comply with the Endangered Species Act,,, in doing so they violated the Act,,, simply the wolves are not indigenous to Idaho which violates the Act. Alaska and Canada have to control the numbers of wolves just to protect the rest of the wildlife. All I'm saying is this overreaches the intent just like what has happened with the ESA. (for every law Congress passes they should remove 2)
I do have a 7 year old that has learned to ride on a cheap China atv,,, now rides a a Husky 50 bike. As an informed parent I will never turn her loose on a large atv. I am comfortable with her on small machine. Common sense tells me the lead content,, while I believe it is all over in the machine,, is not a threat to worry about. What I am worried about,, I've covered helmet, goggles, boots, gloves, and protective clothing are always worn.
I believe the job of CPSC is not to restrict free trade but to inform the public,,, if I have a civil law suit,,, because of gross negligence of a manufacture,,, that is my recourse. Even a little personal responsibility,,, since we don't live in a risk free world.

[turtle22]

You know, I'm not sure about the new standards or how realistic they are. A year ago "my kids" were walking around the house with fake vampire teeth in their mouths. The next day there was a recall on the teeth because of their lead content. They are sending all kinds of crap over here with lead in it. Even crap that has no reason at all to have lead in it, has lead in it. We gave the Dalai Lama some stupid prize that pissed off the Chinese people and I'm sure there's other reasons they hate us. So they intentionally send stuff to our Country that has poisonous levels of lead in it and flip us the bird. This is a strait up attack on our Country, more then an attack on our Country it is an attack on our kids. The reason they have been able to do this is because the spoiled Americans can't live with out their goods and if anyone tries to stop the flow of goods from China the spoiled Americans will flop on the floor and throw a fit and blow snot bubbles untill they get their cheep lead tainted goods from China. If you think this has nothing to do with China you have bumped your head and yes there is more to do with it then lead paint,that's my point.  As for the tree hugging hippi thing are you F-N kidding me, you have no idea. I'm all about kicking ass and going to war if It's called for and we are at war with these guys and we need to fight back I would sooner fly over there and kick their ass but banning their crapy goods is a start. Now if I thought this ban was forever I would be tripping out but I'm sure it's not. So your kid has to go for a few months with out getting a brand new bike that's a very small sacrifice for the better good of our Country and children. There are alot of peoples kids that make real sacrifices for our Country you should count yourself blessed if that is the largest act of sacrifice your child is ever called upon to make for this Country. By the way this ban is not my fault nor is it "MY CAUSE" I had nothing to do with it. I do think it sucks that motrocycles got caught up in this it's a shame. I do have kids and they do have bikes and they will have bikes in the future If I have to whittle them from stone with my bare hands.

thank u very much. we are talking about the only true communist super power. look at the propaganda. its real. they hate us and want to distroy the country that we all live in. norally i would not get on my soap box but this is about more then new motorcycles.

[GDubb]

Well I couldnt agree with you more on the lead teeth, little flags, or whatever. My posts have been stricly regarding the fact that ALL child sized dirtbikes got caught up in this. I dont have a passion for sharing glow in the dark teeth or any other cheap toy with my son. I DO however have a passion for sharing dirtbike riding with my son and did so long before he was even concieved. When I was a kid dreaming and wishing my parents would buy me a dirtbike, I knew back then that I would make sure my kid would get to enjoy dirtbikes. I am also not in a big hurry to run out and throw down 3 to 400 dollars on a cheap chinese throw away bike just so my son can ride. If that was the case he could have been riding over a year ago. I have been waiting until I had a chunk of cash to throw down on a brand new CRF or KDX 50 because I wanted a quality product. I also think its quite humorous that you are so gung-ho and standing up for this ban and telling me it should be no big deal to sacrifice for the greater good while your kids run around enjoying the VERY THING my kid is longing for and being forced to do without. Do I fit into this category- "spoiled Americans will flop on the floor and throw a fit and blow snot bubbles untill they get their cheep lead tainted goods"? I'm not asking for anything more than what you and yours already have and get to enjoy. Which of us qualifies as "spoiled"? I would put myself in the broke ass hard working American whos job was ripped out from underneath him by the housing crisis caused by the "spoiled" Americans buying more house than they could afford or the "spoiled" Americans buying up houses so they could try and turn them for a profit. My family and I are FAR from spoiled. But dirtbiking is the ONE expensive hobby I wanted to make sure my son had the opportunity to enjoy. Plus going so far as to say that I am lucky that is all my child has to sacrifice?  HE'S SEVEN! You have no idea of my family or my family's history. My family has sacrificed more for this country and continues to sacrifice more so than the average American family. Of that I assure you.

  Back to the issue. I posed this question earlier in this thread but havent seen it answered. Are ALL child sized bikes and atv's made in China? I assumed Honda and Kawasaki were Japanese companies but I guess they could out-source the small bikes.


-G

[BDI]

Judging by the factory honda part I just bought for my kids bike that came in a honda wrapper with a honda part number from the honda shop that had a little gold sticker on it that said made in china, I would say yes. Japan is out sourcing to China and why wouldn't they, China can make it for them for cheaper then they could make it themselves. I love it, first I'm a hippi tree hugger now Im just a dick head because my kids have bikes. I think the ban sucks but I'm not going to let it get me down I'm sure it will get fixed. The only thing that has got me down is arguing with some $%#* that thinks its my fault and thinks that some how I'm repressing him with my opinion.

[maddoggy]

gdubb, i feel your pain when it comes to seeing your kids utter disappointment when told of this ban. we both have kids that are saving money to buy their very own bike. this ban sucks PERIOD!!!!!

however, i share the same opinion as BDI when it comes to the point of making these manufacturers build quality products that will be absolutely safe for my kid. i'll figure out something for him to ride regardless of how this law ends up. you have been personally attacking BDI for stating his opinion and thats not cool. he's allowed to have his opinion just like you.

like i said before this is a real catch-22 issue for me.
 
you should show your voice by contacting your congressmen and senators with your views.  i already did.

by the way, are you still sporting that BDI skull on your front fender?