KX450F vs. KX500

[BigGreenMachine]

...they dont manufacture a good enough chest protector and enough tear-offs to stay behind a KX-500 very long...

Great quote!

[TheGDog]

I owned an '01 KTM 450MXC and now have a '96 KX500.  The KTM was heavier and felt TONS heavier.  The ergos were a little thinner, and it was a little less effort to stuff into a turn... The suspenion is not MILEs apart like some people are saying.

If wheelspin is an issue for you on the K5.. then it's very likely that all ya gotta do is just click-up to the next higher gear and make use of that 500 grunt.

It's strange how some people on here are soo stuck on the concept that BECAUSE it's a 4t you believe it's faster for you in situation X, Y or Z.

I will agree that probably the MAJORITY of your average Joe riders can go faster on a 4t because the power comes on in a more linear fashion so they don't have to learn as much finesse and the fine-art of clutch work fishing for traction.  And they don't have that yummy concentrated "hit" of power centered around a certain rev-range as 2t's are more usually prone to do.

Personally... I've found that the 2t style of power... and having much-less of the compression braking affect in the long run teaches me to ride faster.  it's like you sorta are forced to learn how to enter into corners coming in hotter than you would on the 4t.  I don't quite know how to put it.

And puh-lease!!!... ANY 250cc 2t can murder a 450 4t any day of the week.

Yeah... sure... if you put a total SQUID behind the controls that's not going to happen... but any reasonably competent Vet on a 250 2t will eventually slip past a guy on a 450 4t.

And comparing the 450 4t with a K5.. HA!!!  There is just NO COMPARISON!

Phew... it makes me drool to try to imagine just how bad-a$$ one of that KX500AF's must be.  Putting the K5 BEAST into a one of the new-style nimble, narrow frames.. now THAT would be something to BEHOLD!!!

As for why you are only seeing 4t's on the starting line at SuperCross events... DUH!!!!  The companies are dumping all kindsa R & D money to go this 4t route since they fear the EPA eventually will stomp-out 2t's... not only that.. they know they can make a boat-load more money at the dealership with the increased maintenance service costs

[don46]

I owned an '01 KTM 450MXC and now have a '96 KX500.  The KTM was heavier and felt TONS heavier.  The ergos were a little thinner, and it was a little less effort to stuff into a turn... The suspenion is not MILEs apart like some people are saying.

If wheelspin is an issue for you on the K5.. then it's very likely that all ya gotta do is just click-up to the next higher gear and make use of that 500 grunt.

It's strange how some people on here are soo stuck on the concept that BECAUSE it's a 4t you believe it's faster for you in situation X, Y or Z.

I will agree that probably the MAJORITY of your average Joe riders can go faster on a 4t because the power comes on in a more linear fashion so they don't have to learn as much finesse and the fine-art of clutch work fishing for traction.  And they don't have that yummy concentrated "hit" of power centered around a certain rev-range as 2t's are more usually prone to do.

Personally... I've found that the 2t style of power... and having much-less of the compression braking affect in the long run teaches me to ride faster.  it's like you sorta are forced to learn how to enter into corners coming in hotter than you would on the 4t.  I don't quite know how to put it.

And puh-lease!!!... ANY 250cc 2t can murder a 450 4t any day of the week.

Yeah... sure... if you put a total SQUID behind the controls that's not going to happen... but any reasonably competent Vet on a 250 2t will eventually slip past a guy on a 450 4t.

And comparing the 450 4t with a K5.. HA!!!  There is just NO COMPARISON!

Phew... it makes me drool to try to imagine just how bad-a$$ one of that KX500AF's must be.  Putting the K5 BEAST into a one of the new-style nimble, narrow frames.. now THAT would be something to BEHOLD!!!

As for why you are only seeing 4t's on the starting line at SuperCross events... DUH!!!!  The companies are dumping all kindsa R & D money to go this 4t route since they fear the EPA eventually will stomp-out 2t's... not only that.. they know they can make a boat-load more money at the dealership with the increased maintenance service costs

I wasn't going to reply to this but in the end felt compelled to comment, and I might add that I have a 06 250 2t, 07 450 4t and aluminum framed 500, my son has raced nationals so he's no slouch on the track. The 500 is great in the wide open, hillclimbs, desert sand, the 250 is a fun bike trail riding, the 450 is a track bike, having said that there is no way equal riders the 250 will run with the 450 on the track, you can talk about finesse whatever, it won't happen. When yamaha came out with the 250f and the rest of the brands still had 2t, you had to have a better rider to compete with the 4t, on a local level mediocre riders purchased 250f's and all the sudden became top level riders. There are some tracks where a 250 can do well, momentum tracks like Mammoth Mountain, but it seems there are a awful lot of slick hard tracks out there and the 250 won't do it .

I might ask what you basis for comparsion is? do you have these bikes? or are you just assuming?  Don't get me wrong I like them all, but they are purpose built machines. Maybe in the Vet class and even beginner classes the 250 can be competitive, not in the Pro class.

I don't like the KTM suspension, so your probably right the 500 and you 01 450 were probably not that far off. Nothing personal to you KTM owners, that's just my opinion.


One other comment, I think I like the 500 in the 05 250f steel frame better than the 450 aluminum frame, it feels much smaller and seems to handle better, can't quantify that just going by feel.

[kayx250]

I might ask what you basis for comparsion is? do you have these bikes? or are you just assuming?  Don't get me wrong I like them all, but they are purpose built machines. Maybe in the Vet class and even beginner classes the 250 can be competitive, not in the Pro class.

Thats what I was going to ask.....I actually have both a 03 kx 250 with a 2005 engine, and a 2008 kx450f and I can tell you there aint no way in hell with equally compitent riders on both bikes would a 250 win.... thats the whole reason I bought one I talked all the crap about how 2-strokes were better then I raced him and he dusted my a$$ and he made me a believer if I liked it or not then I took my bone stock 450 to the beach to drag race at pismo and was slaughtering modded 250 2-strokes left and right while I was just having fun riding a wheelie not even getting into 5th and they still couldnt touch me

I have a feeling all these people who "claim" a 250 would smoke a 450 havent even ridden a new 450..

also like I said I still have a 2-stroke and when I feel like fishtailing for miles i take it but if I just want to rip i'll take the fo fiddy

[GDubb]

then I took my bone stock 450 to the beach to drag race at pismo and was slaughtering modded 250 2-strokes left and right while I was just having fun riding a wheelie not even getting into 5th and they still couldnt touch me

I have a buddy I used to ride with that took his bone stock '95 Yamaha WR250 2t (no, NOT a YZ... a WR!) to the dunes with an 8 cup paddle on it and whooped the snot out of a paddled crf450 and a YZ426 across the flats. Wasn't even close. Granted I have never had the oportunity to ride a shiny new 4t and would love to have one so I have no gripe about them other than the maintenance and cost for rebuilds... but I have ridden sand for years and no bike makes power and comes out of the hole and then runs wide open on top like a 2t across the flats. If you were wheelieing and not touching 5th then those were either squids you were racing or those bikes had issues.  If you did beat a stock 250 on your stock 450, both in good running condition and with similar riding abilities then it would still be a d**n close race, not wheelieing in a gear lower. However, I would give the 4t full advantage on a track.... just not wide open across the flats.


-G

[kayx250]

theoritically my 450 tops out at 83 in 4th and 95 in 5th gear and since you abviously called me out I'll just have to get a vid since im going to pismo this 4th of july

and I doubt 15+ 250 riders were squids

trust me on this I have both I even had my 250 bored and ported with 54 rwhp I think the 450 would still take it at pismo becuase of its gearing

[KXcam22]

I haven't ridden many 250 2t that had a top end that made me sit up and take notice.  The KX500 makes me take notice and my new 450 4t also does.  It's deceptive but there is a lot of power there, and it gets to the ground quite easily.  I love 2-strokes but I will not believe that a 250 2t can compete with a 450 4t in almost any venue.  The HP and other physical advantages of the 4t are too great.  In many of these "instances" that people describe, rider skill comes into play.  I can't count the number of times I dusted off superior bikes in tight single track on my 92 K5. I told them it was all the bike - but it wasn't.  When I look at the starting line of any MX or supercross even the lowest budget privateers are running 4t bikes and accepting the higher cost to be competetive.   All I know is that on my 450 I can go really fast, really easily. Cam.

[kiwimonster]

hey guys im going to throw my 2 cents in too , i race my 2000 k5 in mx here in nz in the vets class 35 + im the only guy riding a 2 stroke. all 450 fs the 4,s hook up way better than my big banger, i find it very frustrating in the corners they hook up and my big 5 just breaks loose. raced last sunday sitting 4th pushing for third cracked the gas on in a right hander, very wet , she step out left then right then left the ka pow im down. throttle control i dont have. can run the 4 strokes down on the straights but for hook up and cornering the 4,s have it. but hey i still love me big 2 banger .

[dsrtrider]

I have a 1994 kx 500 and a 2007 ktm 300 xc-w.  my 2 cents:

in mid 1990's apparently people thought 2 stroke 500's were to powerful so industry stopped making them.  then we decided 250 two strokes didn't have enough power so rather than just making a 300(or something like that) 2 stroke we went in different direction and came out with a more powerful four stroke with all the complexities, cost, etc (with the help from the AMA rule book allowing for 450's in 250 class based on ?).  Just becasue it was possible to get a 4 stroke lighter in weight and with good power the downside as stated in earlier posts makes me wondr if it was worth it.  hindsight maybe industry should have kept with a 2 stroke and just used a higher displacement to keep all the advantges of a 2 stroke.

I remember old magazine tests that would say one bike was more torquier than another and sometimes they would score more or less.  if we just needed more HP and torques you can get that with a 2 stroke with larger displacment, flywheels etc.

my point is in the debate on 2 stroke vs 4 stroke is that 2 strokes are better if you compare apples to apples.  a 250 two stroke is down on horsepower and torque to a 450 which is why the AMA should revist its resaons behind its displacment limits and use something reasonable to we the consumers have a real choice.  if we had 300 two strokes (or whatever the magic number is) that has the same horspower and torque the two stroke would be the better choice becasue it would always be lighter, easier to work on, cheaper, etc.  450 four stroke vs 450 two stroke,  250 four stroke vesus 250 two stoke are not fair comparisons so its not a 4 stroke vs two stroke debate.  its the displacment debate between the 2.   Dirt rider just did a 2 stroke vs 4 stroke test at the sand between 450 and 250 two stroke.  how about a 500 2 stroke versus 450 four stroke.  is either fair?  consumers need real fair choices and let market decide.

Now we hear in some ametuer classes they will allow 250 two strokes race with 250 four strokes.  is that fair?  the 250 two strokes have the horsepower advantange so does that mean everyone will by 250 two strokes and the 250 four strokes will go away??? no our kids will go from mini's to 250 two strokes?? LOL   seems AMA needs to get so realistic displacments.  but probably to late.
one last rant:  i keep hearing about EPA laws killing two strokes.  where is the exact EPA law or is it just rumor?

[kiwimonster]

this year in nz we are running 250 2,s against the 250 4,s in the national titles first was a 250 4 then 2nd 3rd 4th 5th were 2 stokes, it was a real eye opener as there were bugger all points in it,  i think they won two rounds each, the 2,s on the nice loamy tracks and the 4,s when they were slippery.   in my class the vets you can ride anything, im looking at getting a klx 450 as i like the e start side of it, but i will be keeping my k5.

[dsrtrider]

seems that if magzines tested 500 2TS vs 450 4 st they would say the 450's would win due to superior handling and ignore horsepower.  when they test 450's against 250 two strokes then its all about power and forget handling so 450's win.  same with 250 fours against 125 two strokes.   but occaisonally they say 250 four strokes beat 450 four strokes since handling is better.

basically when four strokes are comapred to two strokes the magaizines say power is everything but if compared to a 2 stroke with some power then they say handling is everything.  its very confusing but bottom line is its the rider and how comfortable they are on the bike.  i ride senior class so more choices

[KXcam22]

I miss my old local MX track where we had GP races, any bike, any engine size all raced together.  I was not unusual to a 125cc 2t to win the race. Cam.

[bunk]

who would win in a straight drag race?  or say a race up comp hill at the dunes?  And by how many bike lengths?

[Hillclimb#42]

depends on the riders!!!!!!!

[dsrtrider]

if equal riders i would think the bike with most horspower would win up a sand hill.