Author Topic: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?  (Read 37882 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline mxaniac

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« on: March 24, 2014, 04:13:38 AM »
Based on the "my poor bike" thread it sounds like some broken frames have been experienced.  Given the variation in weld material, motor mounts, head stays etc. all we can really do is look for any trends that exist.  I thought it might make sense to start a "registry" if you will of any known breaks.

My 2006 450F based frame has broken.
DSPMOTO has had a 2006 based frame break.

Anyone else?

Offline mxaniac

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2014, 07:02:20 AM »
Here was another one, looks like it was a 2008.

http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,10642.0.html

Offline motopunk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,150
    • www.der-motopunk.de.tl
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2014, 08:33:40 AM »
Here was another one, looks like it was a 2008.

http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,10642.0.html

in the most cases they broke, because of wrong heat treating by the aluminium-welding ..thats a very important fact.. aluminium-frames are much more stiffer than steel-frames, that makes the modifying and welding a bit more tricky as the same work on steel-frames...
there were also some years of no modified honda oem-4stroke-al-frames that broke like glass...
big 2 stroke bikes are weapons for real men, who donīt fear death or devil. ;O)
ī83 kx250, ī87 kx250 (with 360 big bore), 87 kx500, ī93 kx500 sfc

---  www.der-motopunk.de.tl  ---

Offline jBernard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 299
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2014, 08:41:48 AM »
forgot about JHolt's breakage.
looks like in same place as yours. his headstay looks a bit weird. almost like the engine could rotate in the cradle, looks like a 2pt mount system rather than a 3pt that cant rotate.
can you shoot us a picture of your headstay?
'09 KX500AF - never ending project
'14 KTM 300SX

Offline mxaniac

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 03:39:53 AM »
I still haven't had a chance, bit it is a cross tube between the original mount points with tabs to the head.  Not as rigid perhaps as some have suggested it ought to be.  I'm getting concerned about how much load might actually be on these engines, I doubt they were designed to be that much of a stressed member.

Offline jBernard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 299
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 08:50:38 AM »
have you seen Jfabs 'head bolt pattern to front tube' bracket? i wonder if something like that would help. care would be needed to be given in the design for easy engine removal, but to have another mounting point on something solid like the main down tube seems like it would help. so then you would have 2 anchors on extremely rigid structural material, then your 2 engine mounts on the bent tubing.
'09 KX500AF - never ending project
'14 KTM 300SX

Offline Dutch-K5 Fan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 759
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2014, 08:58:43 AM »
What about this SR head?




Kawasaki used front and back headmounts. It's even in the place where many 450f and never 250f have the Original mount.


dutchie
Proud owner of a KX500AF

Offline Jos197AF

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 29
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2014, 09:09:17 AM »
have you seen Jfabs 'head bolt pattern to front tube' bracket? i wonder if something like that would help. care would be needed to be given in the design for easy engine removal, but to have another mounting point on something solid like the main down tube seems like it would help. so then you would have 2 anchors on extremely rigid structural material, then your 2 engine mounts on the bent tubing.

I am gonna find a solution for that issue, an extra head mount on the front for my AF. I think I make it fully removeable, no welding.

Offline sandblaster

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,271
    • OEM-CYCLE QUALITY USED PARTS
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2014, 09:40:08 AM »
Already done it





Even if you weld the mount on, you can still remove the engine.
The four stroke engine: That's one stroke for producing power and three for wearing the engine out.

Offline jBernard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 299
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2014, 05:42:06 PM »
i may have to do one of these for some added insurance.
wonder if it will negatively affect vibration.
'09 KX500AF - never ending project
'14 KTM 300SX

Offline sandblaster

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,271
    • OEM-CYCLE QUALITY USED PARTS
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2014, 05:46:15 PM »
I guess we'll find out..  :-o
The four stroke engine: That's one stroke for producing power and three for wearing the engine out.

Offline motopunk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,150
    • www.der-motopunk.de.tl
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2014, 08:09:30 AM »
What about this SR head?




Kawasaki used front and back headmounts. It's even in the place where many 450f and never 250f have the Original mount.


dutchie


very rare factory gp-parts... i still dream to have one of the 3 1990/91 worksbikes or one of this engines ...

but watch out this cylinderhead is designed for the 1990-93 parallel cooling system that the production 125 and 250īs had...  the 1990/91 kx500sr is similar in some points to the 1990/91 kx250 . and i still dont know, why its never gone into production...


for sandblasters front mount, i would say : its better to lift up the mount on the frame, as high as possible to get more space to the head and using also brackets like on the rear mount...  :wink:
big 2 stroke bikes are weapons for real men, who donīt fear death or devil. ;O)
ī83 kx250, ī87 kx250 (with 360 big bore), 87 kx500, ī93 kx500 sfc

---  www.der-motopunk.de.tl  ---

Offline ylwgtr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2014, 07:47:37 PM »
It is my view that a bad head stay mostly causes this...we need to think about lateral force aswell as longitudinal ....a cross braced staggered firmly anchored headstay seems to be the answer,the plate method is just too springy for my liking and FORGET using side mounts period...I'd also be using radius tube for the under cradles...I use this on Hondas and kawasakis and not had a problem...I run a telescope join on the upper part of the y with a staggered/castellated join and a round plug weld in a hole on the upper to y join.....I also like to leave a 5mm gap in my telescope joins and sink a weld right down into the root then a dresser weld over the top ....I'm not an engineer or fabricator but this system has worked time and time over for me





« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 07:50:38 PM by ylwgtr »

Offline hulkteam476

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2014, 10:56:40 PM »
I can say yes! here is a good design to fit preparation for welding.

Mister, Ylwgtr...

Offline sandblaster

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,271
    • OEM-CYCLE QUALITY USED PARTS
Re: Broken AF frame - Do you know of any?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2014, 10:30:43 AM »
Looks top notch.
Are you going to use a front head stay as well?
The four stroke engine: That's one stroke for producing power and three for wearing the engine out.