klx450/kx500

[ylwgtr]

[ID KX500]

I doctor emmett brown...am about to embark...on a historic journey.....And on 30th of the 11th 2013....it was born
http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s398/ylwgtr2/84489DC6-6E9E-4E92-A97C-163F4C49E3CB-8633-00000831073DD4C6_zps14be0433.mp4

Awesome!!!!

[Gage]

You are one bad ass dude!

[ylwgtr]

Ok so I've decided to go with an electric decomp....I will dump it into the kips section of the cylinder (which I haven't bored/taped/machined a seat for the copper washer yet) I've received the KTM loom section so I will whip the cylinder off tomorrow and do the work to finish the decomp fitting and if I got enough time drop the engine back on and fire it up off the starter motor 

[ylwgtr]

ok update.....got it all back together.....kick started it first off to make sure the flywheel was in the right spot and the KTM cdi was happy.....It fired right up.....felt heaps more snappy on the throttle.....Right...so ive made an improvement here....next,starting it off the starter motor...No joy....ok so i thought lets have a look here...motor seems to be turning over fast enough alright no doubt about that,no horrible crunch's or abnormal gear meshing sounds,just a nice electric start crank over sound much like the new whoopie cushions......seems my engineering is up to scratch ....i took a good look at the KTM wiring diagram again to make sure there no crank signal or anything like that from the button to the CDI.....nope nothing....i left the spark plug in and connected a new one to the coil lead and cranked it....no spark......give it a kick,i got spark....but i did notice you have to give it a big kick(normal for starting a 500 i guess)....a half arsed kick....no spark.....Ok so ive come to the conclusion that i need to check the air gap for the pick up to flywheel.....i will need to mill or drill and inspection window in the cover to do this so i can see it in its working position......I cant complain so far as the whole set up so far has given me no trouble retrofitting onto this engine,there was always bound to be some sort of spanner in the works! stay tuned fella's....im on the home stretch! 

[Motorrad]

Check system voltage under cranking. Starter my be pulling system down below operation threshold.  

Which cdi  are you using

My KTM has some very interesting starting quarks when it comes to voltage if your interested

[Twosmokerfan]

Awesome job so far. I will have to get down that way and check it out. Perhaps early next year. You rock!

TSF

[ylwgtr]

Motorad,the CDI circuit is totally independent  to the starter circuit....the cdi does not require battery voltage at all to function...the loom is separated from the charging/cranking loom on the KTM

[motopunk]

realy nice work, but it looks like an little electrical problem now... 

1. is the engine running, if you kick it ??

2. i think maybe you only need isolation between the voltage of the e-start-system and the ignition-system , that the e-start-voltage can not bother the performance of the ignition-system, if you try to e-start the engine.

some years ago had one of my riding buddys the same problem with his ktm 300 exc, kickstarted it, runs...   than try to e-start: no spark!!
kicked it again, sparked and was running with the same sparkplug.
 
he went with the bike to the local ktm-shop and they solved the problem with better isolation, that the voltage of the e-start-system cant touch the engine-cases and only works between battery and e-start-motor as an closed system, because the ignition also use the engine housing to work as an electric circle. any external voltage will bother it and the spark could be completely gone or simply not strong enough to ignite .   

my idea is, that you should install an isolating gasket to the ignition cover and isolating washers between cover and bolts, that no e-start voltage could reach the ignition system...
... its worth a try !! 
sometimes is the problem much smaller as it looks in first... 

[ylwgtr]

hi motopunk....do you mean the ground is robbing the CDI ground?It kick starts fine....but when cranking with a spark plug in i got no spark(ive have a spare plug in the cap) whip out the lug in the engine which gives me more crank over speed(and unloads the starter motor) i got spark.....Having a fresh look at it today i thought id check the power to the CDI from the charge coil in the stator cover....i think i found something....during cranking i get 8.7 ac volts....plug out i get 11-12 ac.......so next i kick started it and tested the volts at idle....i got 10AC volts and climbing at revs....To me this means the operational voltage of the CDI is from 10 volts to say 50?so now i need to find out what the KTM300 has at crank....or force feed 10-20ac volts to the cdi from an auxillary power suple (a plug pack from a wall power for testing purposes,then i can rig some thing up onboard permenantly)

[tobys 2 strokes]

You have already shown yourself to be more superior at this sort of thing than most so my 2cents is probably not worth much. but it sounds like a cranking speed issue to me I have had quite a few differant atvs that when the battery is old ore the starter worn that will sound like they are cranking fast but wont start intill either pulled or kicked or hooked to a charger .

When are you going to start selling those adapter plates??

[ylwgtr]

hi toby any input is appreciated mate  I aggree with you there on the cranking rpm...but i tell you i reckon im close to makimng enough power....everyone thats herd it crank over has commented that they have never heard a KTM300 crank over that fast....i need to get my hands on a KTM and check the cranking power thats generated from the CDI charge coil....also how many puffs i get out the pipe per 10 secs of cranking and and work out the cranking rpm's and compare to mine

[cbrfrenzie]

Another cool way to measure RPM's is to get a frequency measuring App for your smart phone (if you have one) and hold it by the exhaust outlet while cranking.  They make some guitar tuning Apps too that may work great for this!

[motopunk]

hi motopunk....do you mean the ground is robbing the CDI ground?It kick starts fine....but when cranking with a spark plug in i got no spark(ive have a spare plug in the cap) whip out the lug in the engine which gives me more crank over speed(and unloads the starter motor) i got spark.....Having a fresh look at it today i thought id check the power to the CDI from the charge coil in the stator cover....i think i found something....during cranking i get 8.7 ac volts....plug out i get 11-12 ac.......so next i kick started it and tested the volts at idle....i got 10AC volts and climbing at revs....To me this means the operational voltage of the CDI is from 10 volts to say 50?so now i need to find out what the KTM300 has at crank....or force feed 10-20ac volts to the cdi from an auxillary power suple (a plug pack from a wall power for testing purposes,then i can rig some thing up onboard permenantly)

yes thats exactly my thought...  its worth a try, to see if the spark comes back by e-start. i saw your video and the 300īs turns also with this crank speed. by kicking over is the crank on the most bikes slower as by e-start... 
crank speed measuring is also a great idea for direct comparing between ktm 300 and kx500 . also a stronger battery could bring better e start performance.

you do a real great work . the first one who make this to reality and i think you are very very close to the finish line of this project...   

[ylwgtr]

thanks bloke  im going to pick up a ktm300 tonight so i can do some tests with it over the weekend