Author Topic: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"  (Read 124708 times)

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Offline USMC 500

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #165 on: September 30, 2013, 03:38:43 PM »


Ideas are brewing, thought bubbles are forming, theory's are cooking.........you will all be filled in as soon as things become more apparent. :wink:
I once heard my buddy Bill ask Danny Hamel after a race....
"How can someone who looks like a high school band tuba player go so d**n fast on a bike?!"

Motorrad

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #166 on: October 08, 2013, 12:46:00 PM »
been thinking on this piston window thing.

I believe the side port idea may effect aux port flow.  as when the aux ports are needed they are a more direct route for the charge hiding in the intake area infront of the reeds.

I believe that the center "S" design will and DOES effect the floor and rear boost flow.

I believe the HIGH center port idea, will effect the rear boost port, even though it may clear the hiding charge under the piston????

Im thinking.  that since the big K5 already has OVERSIZED transfer ports.   we need all the squeeeze we can get.

Im now thinking that some Skirt modifications in the transfer port area like I already do is in order.  

and some skirt modifications on the intake side.       as like the transfer area, the radius's were made and designed for cast pistons to live.  but since we are running FORGED pistons. we can get away with more...   and thus, modify the bottom profile some.


thinking keeping the greatest ammount of area under (bottom profile) of the intake skirt open as long as we can till just before the transfers open up...   is perhapse the way to go here...

so they will close JUST before the transfers open.. so we still have the nearly the same port duration as a window, with only a few degrees of closure, before the aux and boost ports pick it back up.  (floor ports still cause it to be full duration open anyways)    causing the piston to be a big plunger.... helping to shove the LAZY intake charge through those over sized ports....



thoughts??


warning. I didnt proof read this.  just typed it...............  :roll:

keep in mind.  I build power for DESERT PEOPLE.   not drags, or hill climbs    so windows may work better for those "other" types.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 12:53:52 PM by Motorrad »

Motorrad

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #167 on: October 08, 2013, 02:16:47 PM »
Nothing?   nobody?


sheesh.



how about a visual.


Offline USMC 500

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #168 on: October 08, 2013, 02:35:49 PM »
are we talking skirt mods only with NO window?
I once heard my buddy Bill ask Danny Hamel after a race....
"How can someone who looks like a high school band tuba player go so d**n fast on a bike?!"

Motorrad

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #169 on: October 08, 2013, 02:39:51 PM »
are we talking skirt mods only with NO window?

correct.

just happened to have a windowed piston to color on...

Offline 81cr450

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #170 on: October 08, 2013, 02:47:29 PM »
The window is 2hp in the middle of the powerband right? so thats great for varied throttle desert right?

I really think you have some great theory with finding the right "pulse" with the piston window , it really seems you need to make each varied design get a chassis dyno & play "Lets change the piston game". Even the long side slit idea "looked" good & it might be awesome for 1 or 2 top speed runs & swap in another so it doesnt come apart.

Id still bet the higher the hole the better but its just an idea
if I only had a pair, I could actually ride this thing

& to the people I like  FYYFF

Offline USMC 500

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #171 on: October 08, 2013, 02:50:24 PM »
are we talking skirt mods only with NO window?

correct.

just happened to have a windowed piston to color on...

I like the idea......looking at everything I do agree that having a huge hole in the piston will cause intake charges to follow the path of least resistance causing a starvation of all the other ports......From what I've read in the past, having the window aided in additional lubrication to the wrist pin.....is this correct and if so is there the possibility of oil holes being added to certain areas???
I once heard my buddy Bill ask Danny Hamel after a race....
"How can someone who looks like a high school band tuba player go so d**n fast on a bike?!"

Motorrad

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #172 on: October 08, 2013, 02:53:00 PM »
The window is 2hp in the middle of the powerband right?






Based on what fact.

a guy that screwed all of us said so?

that and we never saw a dyno for it.   atleast I didnt.

just sayin.     

Motorrad

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #173 on: October 08, 2013, 02:54:27 PM »
are we talking skirt mods only with NO window?

correct.

just happened to have a windowed piston to color on...

From what I've read in the past, having the window aided in additional lubrication to the wrist pin.....is this correct and if so is there the possibility of oil holes being added to certain areas???


Team green really had a problem of under lubed upper end bearings in the baja 1000....  :roll:


sorry, in a argumentative mood tonight.

my department at work was just smeared all over the news
video is better than the text
http://www.10news.com/news/hundreds-of-fire-alarms-in-sweetwater-union-high-school-district-not-working-100813
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 02:56:29 PM by Motorrad »

Offline USMC 500

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #174 on: October 08, 2013, 02:56:19 PM »
The window is 2hp in the middle of the powerband right?






Based on what fact.

a guy that screwed all of us said so?

that and we never saw a dyno for it.   atleast I didnt.

just sayin.     

If this is figure is correct, I can say this.......its a K5, is 2 HP going to break my heart?.......If so I'm sure that 2 HP can be found somewhere else.  It would be nice to have a dyno, KX500, multiple pistons with different cuts, and a Motorrad all in the same place for a few days to put an end to this debate but these conditions are hard to come by.
I once heard my buddy Bill ask Danny Hamel after a race....
"How can someone who looks like a high school band tuba player go so d**n fast on a bike?!"

Offline USMC 500

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #175 on: October 08, 2013, 02:58:54 PM »
are we talking skirt mods only with NO window?

correct.

just happened to have a windowed piston to color on...

From what I've read in the past, having the window aided in additional lubrication to the wrist pin.....is this correct and if so is there the possibility of oil holes being added to certain areas???


Team green really had a problem of under lubed upper end bearings in the baja 1000....  :roll:


sorry, in a argumentative mood tonight.

my department at work was just smeared all over the news
video is better than the text
http://www.10news.com/news/hundreds-of-fire-alarms-in-sweetwater-union-high-school-district-not-working-100813

CRAP........is this just a black eye or are peoples jobs in jeopardy?
I once heard my buddy Bill ask Danny Hamel after a race....
"How can someone who looks like a high school band tuba player go so d**n fast on a bike?!"

Offline 81cr450

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #176 on: October 08, 2013, 03:12:36 PM »
The window is 2hp in the middle of the powerband right?






Based on what fact.

a guy that screwed all of us said so?

that and we never saw a dyno for it.   atleast I didnt.

just sayin.     

Come on Stewie's "Gospel". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAQz_g3qTO4

Hence the need of the dyno
if I only had a pair, I could actually ride this thing

& to the people I like  FYYFF

Motorrad

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #177 on: October 08, 2013, 03:28:04 PM »
and not saying "S" was wrong.   or right...    so lets assume its a good 2HP


many I have chatted with agreed that if there was to be a window.. to move it up, and make it smaller.  myself included.




Im just saying.   if the window was good for 2hp. (theory)...     was it because of added intake duration (360deg)?    venting the trapped gass's?    or evil elf magic  :-o ??

BUT.

what if another method was better?

Im thinking that with the window.   you get a good initial "squeeze" on the charge.   when the transfers first open, you get a rush, that is then short circiuted by the window.    since it all trys to equilize due to the sort of short circiut the window and rear boost port cause.   possibly...  in theory remember.      causing the second half (1/3 or whatever) portion of the charge to get lazy...


NOW..

with the skirt trimmed.

you still have Nearly the same 360 port duration,   since the second the piston closes the intake, the transfers open up,   causing the AUX ports and rear boost to take over the "360" effect the window had.    then the piston has the chance to COMPRESS the crapola out of the charge, through the entire cycle, as it cant escape from the window into the boost port.,   causing it to keep the velocity up in the transfers (oversized remember),  through the ntire cycle........   the only issue here is trapped gass's, and reverse flow, short circiut from the floor ports..?   But the floor ports are fairly small, vs the transfers, so the charge should stick to the transfer route, and actually pull from the floor??

oh wouldnt a flow bench be nice.   with colored air... and transparent Jugs.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 03:33:52 PM by Motorrad »

Offline sandblaster

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #178 on: October 08, 2013, 03:37:03 PM »

oh wouldnt a flow bench be nice.   with colored air... and transparent Jugs.

And a ultra high speed camera to watch it in really slow motion  :-)
The four stroke engine: That's one stroke for producing power and three for wearing the engine out.

Motorrad

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Re: Project "I needed to clean the air filter so I blew the motor"
« Reply #179 on: October 08, 2013, 03:52:00 PM »

oh wouldnt a flow bench be nice.   with colored air... and transparent Jugs.

And a ultra high speed camera to watch it in really slow motion  :-)

and Oscar in a bikini, with a giant bowl of cheetoes, and margaritas.


Oh... wait.   that was last weekend.