Man this is going to make me sound old, but...

[umberto]

Let me preface my rant by saying I am a two stroke lover and I'm an old fart, and I'm unapologetic about both.  I've been prowling Craigslist lately looking for a new project, and it occurred to me that today's line of non-orange motorcycles is so much more narrow than it was back in the day.  In the 80s and beyond, every manufacturer had multiple models of dual sport, enduro, MX, play bikes, etc.  Kawasaki alone had the KDX, KLX, and KX, covering two strokes and even four strokes.  Now big Green has five motocross bikes (but only two full size), two play bikes, and two dual sports.  I think it's the reason that KTM owns the market.  You can get KTM two strokes in 125, 150, 200, 250, 300, and in MX (except the 200), cross country, and enduro.  Plus they have 250, 350, 450, and 500 four strokes of all types.  It seems that Yamaha might have got the message finally, but I wonder if it's too late to make a dent in the orange tide.  Don't get me wrong I have two KTMs and I like them, I just prefer the 2003-2007 KX models.  If Kawasaki offered my KX/KDX hybrid or a KX based off road bike with a two stroke motor, I would be the first guy in line.  Don't even get me started on a KX based 300 two stroke for off road.  Unfortunately I'm afraid that I'll never buy a new Kawasaki two stroke again, even if someone comes out with direct injection and it sells well.  I hope I'm wrong.

Not really going anywhere with this, I just had to vent.  I miss the old days of many choices and options. 

[sandblaster]

The market has shrank so much since 08 that the big four put their eggs in the 4T basket.
Sure, Yamaha has the token 125 and 250 but essentially the motors have been the same forever and only minor chassis improvements. Still nice bikes but whatever...
KTM however plays a different game which is why Motorrad tells me that all he see's in the local desert races is a massive pumpkin patch 
Is there enough room in the market for a modern updated 2T?
I think so but I still think it is limited and the big four would have to invest heavily to take away market share from the Great pumpkin patch.
I long for a new big bore 2T but I don't see it happening any time soon if ever.

[umberto]

I think there is a market there, especially for guys like us that won't buy a modern four stroke.  In the heyday, the factories sold over a million bikes a year.  Now it's closer to 100 to 200 thousand.  A lot of that has to do with market conditions and the ever increasing price of bikes, but I still think that the four stroke and its complexity are hurting the sport.  That and the lack of variety, except for KTM.  Those guys sell the heck out of pumpkins and especially two stroke pumpkins.  The orange 250 and 300 two strokes at my local dealership go faster than beers at a Honky Tonk.     Imagine how quickly a 500 would sell to all those desert racers and GNCC guys.  Not to mention the two stroke races at the nationals that are open to all displacements.  A KTM 500 SX would be all that you would see on the starting line. 

[crooscroos]

I long for the day that the Japanese manufacturers put some of the technology seen on their four-stroke bikes into a redesigned two-stroke bike. If, somehow, they could make a direct injected two-stroke and eliminate the need for premix in the fuel the emissions would go down and I feel they would be more accepted by the environmentally conscious. I would also like to see fuel injection on some two-strokes as the throttle response is unbeatable. I rode a 2014 yz450f the other day and could'nt believe the response, suspension, and ergonomics the bike had. I just wish yamaha could apply all those features to their two-strokers!

[Ims Roll]

Orange have taken over... I know this is a kawi site and my favorite bike will always be my big 5 but KTM has there s**t together... There putting 3x the money into the sport then any other manufacturer. There winning gncc, supercoss, motocross, NHHA, WHHA, Worcs, DAKAR BLA BLA BLA and every local desert series, you name it KTM is stuffing money into it. But yet we can't even get kawi to sponsor a Hare and Hound guy, or a baja team.

Hell some of the jap companies don't even have factory 250 mx/sx teams anymore... What is that saying for the future of the sport when those guys are backing away?

But on the opposing side of things I hate the direction KTM is also going. Don't get me wrong I love that they put money into the industry but at what cost? I do not know how many of you follow the euro market of bikes but we all know Husaberg has been killed off, thats one less bike on the market. They bought husky, witch thank god someone who is not BMW bought them and regardless of most peoples opinion KTM is the best company to have bought the brand. Also word on the street is Gas Gas is going broke an KTM is looking to "help them out". What is going to happen if KTM decides to build a trials bike?? Sherco, Beta, Gas Gas ect don't sell nearly enough enduro bikes to stay open, most of there revenue comes from there trials bikes. If half of the people riding trials go orange that will kill the remainder of the euro brands. I know d**n well Fantic does not sell enough euro bikes to stay open without the trials...

Like I said I love the money they throw at the sport but will it be worth it when the only bike we can buy in 2060 is a KTM or Husky

[alward25]

I agree about the pumpkin patch.  So, to knock on KTM's for a minute.  I work on a lot of them in my shop since the inundation of the market.  What a backwards POS.  People just keep drinking the punch.  F.I. airbox noise is the worst, suspension needs a secret decoder ring, shop manuals are unhelpful and vague (suspension shops agree). Shift shaft design is problematic, it comes a little loose, wich they all do, it gone.  Rear linkage bolt to frame design is aweful, check it out and you will see.  Fuel cap is dumb. Hydrualics on the clutch do not have any less pull than my KLX  450R and is one for system that can easily fail and does.   I ride all these new KTM and Husky bikes and keep being unimpressed with ergo's and handling.  They look cool and that is about all I can say that is positive.  However, they bring me in lots of money because Honda and KTM have been my bread and butter so keep buying them and riding the crap out of them and I will keep rebuilding them for the masses.  I do like it when I get to work on a KX anything.  They have stuff I don't care for either but the list is a lot shorter.  I wish the Japanese guys would get in on what KTM is doing and make more bikes for the variety of purposes like KTM does.

I had to get a rant in too

[Ims Roll]

^^ arent rants the reason forums were created  I agree with some of what you said but there are a few that I do not. The clutch being one, I have been riding and racing euro bikes for the last few years and I have had only one clutch failure and it was just a lack of mechanical skills and through on my end. My first set of Flexx bars I run my clutch lever very low (I'm 6'5 and have a bull dog over the front fender riding style) and the downward flex in the bars loosened the banjo on the perch by rubbing the bottom section of the bars. For the clutch pull all of the euro bikes I have ridden have a much nicer pull then my klx450 had, this is comparing ktm stock to klx stock, as well as the ktm lever are shorter and more out of the way from harm. So I think the hydro clutch is to actually give the same clutch pull but having the ability to put a much shorter clutch lever on the bike.

Alward I do not know what size of a guy you are but the KTM/Euro egos are sooooo much better for the larger framed people. Built much closer for a regular sized person then a 120lb mx guy. When I ride a modern MX bike I feel like i'm humping a ttr125.

And last but not least, I have never had a problem with the ktm 4 stroke, only owned one and did not for very long but I have put a billion hours on a KTM 300 and a 250 and have never had a problem except throwing a piston at them every now and then. And that goes for all of my racing buddies that have pumpkins. First race of this year my buddy lost his water pump about 2 miles into a 100 mile race. Finished the race with the bike still running, Crank was black as coal but it never stopped running, came home slapped a piston in it and it is still running today after another 50+ hours on the motor.

Maybe we are just lucky 

FYI: I actually ride a Beta these days so i'm not 100% bleeding orange 

[sandblaster]

alward25 is about 5' 3" and weighs in at an astonishing 118lb in full riding gear.
Or something like that 

[kxpegger]

I own 3 KTM's now and the newest is the 2015 450SX-F. My 2011 450SX-F has over 300 hours on it and none of my KTM's have had a single mechanical failure other than my 2012 250 SX that kept cracking the pipe near the spring eyelet. Pro Circuit fixed that problem. Oil, filters, chains and tires is about all they have received. The most reliable bikes I have ever owned. The ergos although different are no better or worse than the Japanese bikes. KTM has the best brakes in the business. Although the clutch pull may not be much different, because it's a hydraulic system and the way it is designed it is self adjusting and adds to clutch life. I still have 2 Zooks and the KX500AF. Need to sell something but just can't seem to bring myself to it. 500AF isn't going anywhere!

[umberto]

I like the KTM stuff, but the 2003-2007 KX just fits me better.  With that being said if I was to buy a new bike today, it would probably be a KTM or more likely a Beta.  Sadly, Kawasaki wouldn't even enter my mind.  They don't offer anything for off road, and the motocross bikes just don't interest me.

I guess to my original point, KTM is the most like the Japanese brands when I was a kid.  Lots of variety for riders of all skill levels and interests.  I just hope the Japanese brands remember where they were before it's too late, and like IMS Roll said we're all riding orange or white.