Author Topic: Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs  (Read 3910 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sharc

  • Guest
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« on: July 22, 2004, 06:03:44 AM »
My suspension's revalved by ACME, with .43 fork springs and (stock) 5.8 shock spring. I'm 5'10 230 w/gear. Feels better than any bike I've owned, but there's a spike when I hit square-edge bumps at 20-40mph, mostly the fork, but the shock too gives a harsh jolt when I hit a sharp edge just wrong....Also when the front end comes down from a wheelie too fast the forks feel harsh. My guess is high speed comp is a little stiff. Any comments...?

Gracias,

Sharc

Offline Paul

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,205
  • Top Dawg
    • KX Riders
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2004, 09:10:07 AM »
What weight fluid are you using?

Why the hell did they put a fork spring for a 180lb'er in there  :blink:

MIKECALDERA

  • Guest
Ouch
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2004, 03:14:59 PM »
Whats up Brother. I'm 200lbs and running 46 with ten weight oil.

I hope they didn't supercross your valves reducing oil flow.

Better get out your specs on what they did. I can't answer your question when I don't know what was done.

I can suggest that if your a Novice or trail rider your springs are perfect. If you do any type of Motocross immediately ebay the springs for 46 or 48. Go to racetech.com and plug in your numbers w/o gear.

Yes, try to soften the compression and rebound seperately and two clicks at a time.

If they built your forks you should be ok but take the time and dial them in.

One last thing: Use a tie wraps around the fork legs and gently secure it. Then try to bottom it without killing yourself. Maybe a small jump or mid jump.

Did you reach full travel? Oil is for the last 4 inches of travel.

I'm guessing they added too much oil to stiffen them up for your weight when they should always use less oil (saves seals )and stiffer springs.

If you reach full travel, the solution is in the clickers. If not OUCH. Open your caps/ airscrew and remove some oil.

Good luck :roll:
Mike

Offline Paul

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,205
  • Top Dawg
    • KX Riders
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2004, 03:27:14 PM »
Sharc, I'm 205 and run 1/2 7wt + 1/2 10wt @ 90MM with a .46 spring (biggest you can get for the '01 46MM) BUT, I informed my tuner that I raced Open Expert and needed to take a G-out at 100+ and that's exactly what I got. I'll take it to Speedworld and MX it - nothing like a dez sled showing up some youngunz on thier 250's ;) OR with a slight twist of the screw driver I'm back in the dez.

I also run a softer spring on the shock, a 5.4 with medium weight. As Mike recommeded, get that sheet out and post the spec's for what they did and we'll be happy to explain it and make suggestions.

Sharc

  • Guest
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2004, 03:35:33 AM »
Cool. I'll get the specs over the weekend. My K5's a 2002. I'll check all the clickers too. If I can cush up the ride that'd be awesome. I've been riding since I was 11 (now 46...) and I'm in pretty good shape - not a novice fer shure....Raced 5 yrs in Ca dez, 3 yrs in Connecticut rocks back in the 80's-90's. If you can get there on a bike, I'll get there too and I probably wont be last...Favorite rides are rocky single track and 40-50 mile desert loops.

Thanks

Sharc

  • Guest
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2004, 02:40:19 AM »
I'll re-check the SAG tonight cuz it looks a little weird. Darryl at ACME (great guy) said to set the static at 1 - 1.25 and forget the race sag.
Here's the specs:

0.43 Fork springs, 10mm preload, oil level 100mm, Maxima 5 wt.
5.8Kg shock spring, 150psi nitro, medium shock oil.
Static Sag - 1 1/16, race sag - 3 9/16

Shock Upper - 9, Lower 10

Fork Upper - 12, lower 13

It feels soft in back in the whoops, stiff in front in the rocks, and both front and rear feel harsh in the middle on high impacts - much more in the front than the back...

MIKECALDERA

  • Guest
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2004, 03:01:23 AM »
100mm from the top is too muchfor your bike and you, 110-120mm should work. Can you ask "how many cc's does that equal in your forks?" usually 4-5 inches depending on stiffness.

175lbs of nitrogen not 150lbs...oh boy. Get 175 in there right away. 150 is soft. Preload can help but get 175 and see the difference.
I do both rear and front myself and its always better than anybody else.

Next time do it yourself. It will be cheaper and better.

Mike

mikesmith

  • Guest
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2004, 08:01:53 PM »
"Next time do it yourself. It will be cheaper and better."

You revalve your self or just rebuild?If you do your own revalve how about a write up/how to,that would be good to know.

MIKECALDERA

  • Guest
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2004, 02:41:41 AM »
I  have a pdf but its 12 megs compressed because of the pics in it. Send email to me and ill send it to you. Mikecaldera@optonline.net I don't touch the valves because it's perfect with correct oil/air ratio. I tried to upload the pdf here but it won't let me even upload 1 meg. Anyway when you see hou I did it you'll see its really easy and not worth 300 bucks with shipping to send it out.

Rick

  • Guest
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2004, 08:38:14 AM »
Guess I'm getting in a little late, but thought I should chime in as well.

Daryl at ACME has access to the suspension dyno's at Kawasaki, which I don't think others here can match.  He has also tuned for almost every fast off road rider in America, and has been making the KX500 go fast for as long as a lot of us have been riding.  In a nut shell, the guy has forgotten more about tunning a KX than most of us will ever know.

I, too, have spent a lot of time in the desert revalving both my own shocks and forks, but when it was time to race with the big dogs, Daryl got the nod for the go fast tuning.

Here are my thoughts:  Daryl does like the lighter springs in the front than I prefer, so you, too, might be happier with the .46 springs.  He also likes the rear a little stiffer than I prefer, and like Paul, I run a 5.4.  However, leave your oil level at 100mm in the front.

I suspect the solution to your problems are in the clickers.  Your fork compression looks pretty good, so start with your fork rebound.  Only make one change at a time, and do all of your tuning on a section of trail with which you are familiar and can ride fast.  Your shock compression looks to be too little, while your rebound is too much, but this is going to depend a lot upon your riding position.  If you ride over the bars, you're probably transfering too much weight to the front of the bike.  Drop the shock compression a couple of clicks, and increase the rebound for starters.

If all else fails, call Daryl and give him details on where it does not work, on what type of terrain, and at what speed.  

Good Luck

Rick

MIKECALDERA

  • Guest
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2004, 06:08:14 PM »
Hey Rick,
I'm only trying to help these guys save time and money. I agree that if a professional had worked the forks or shock it most likely is in the settings. Unfortunately, its almost impossible to correctly match personal clicker settings let alone oil height and viscosity for each seperate rider. Most pro's will take down your weight and riding ability and TRY to emulate what works best. I know 175 lbs is better for me than 150lbs. 60 ft jumps tell me to have 175lbs in the rear when my 200lb missle lands. Thus, its my opinion that its always better to adjust your forks and FINE tune them to your specfic riding ability. When I say fine tune I might be 10cc off or exact in oil height than the pro's like acme racetech etc. Now ACME might be 100% correct for 90% of there riders however, That can mean the difference of a rider complaining and one not complaining. Not one company can guarantee 100% dialedin on the first time. Its all a matter of what your knowledge base is and what you expect out of your forks. In short, even if rocket science is utilized it would be worthless to a rider who could not capitalize on its technology. So based on the above riding style: may be too high in oil height in the front and too soft in the rear. I agree 100% to play with the clickers and have the results reported back here first; but if I got only a dime for each rider that received there forks back from ABC company and complained about stiffness/softness I'd have a million in the bank. I ageed that if a rider paid money the mechanic will gladly fine tune it further and dial it in. Once, you do it over and over again yourself its worth it for your safety and dollars saved. Hey, if I screw up its may fault if someone else screws up its your fault. Rebuilding forks is dangerous if you don't do it correctly and may cause serious injury and or the other. That's why I always rebuild my entire bike myself. Not to take anything away from other pro's except mistakes do happen as I learned by breaking bones! I learned from my history at the kawi dealer!

Sharc

  • Guest
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2004, 04:24:06 AM »
All good stuff guys. I agree, I need to work with the clickers first. Thats why I havent called Darryl yet. A good day tuning might clear it up. It's splitting hairs cuz it's really good the way it is. My KTM buddy loves my KX suspension as is. It has a lot to do with riding style for sure. Just wanted to make sure I didnt have a problem that all K5's have - just got to tune it out.

Sharc

Rick

  • Guest
Suspension - Hi Speed Comp vs Comp vs Springs
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2004, 11:22:02 AM »
Oops, didn't mean for my post to sound grumpy.  Must have been because I wrote it late in the day.

SHARC, good luck on the tuning.  I always enjoy this part of riding, just dialing everything in to be just right.  

Rick