KX Riders

General => In General... => Topic started by: Motorrad on December 07, 2009, 03:38:42 PM

Title: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on December 07, 2009, 03:38:42 PM
So Honestly.... Really....     Are new forks that much better?!


Than my "prepped" 91 blue leg forks...




Getting the itch to fabricate and tinker...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KX250F-KX450F-KX250-Front-Forks-Suspension-Triple-Tree_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5637583573QQitemZ370295715187QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: KXcam22 on December 07, 2009, 04:52:53 PM
Motorad,
 On my 92 I could not get the forks to be plush and not bottom.  To do that they needed internal revalving work.  I would say that the new forks ARE better.  My 07 forks are very nice stock.  Heck I put a CR250 front end on my wifes CRF230.  Makes an incredible difference and was a fun project. Cam.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: jfabmotorsports.com on December 08, 2009, 01:29:39 AM
How did the 426 that you rode last week feel compared to the K5? I know thats what got you thinkin.  The 07 and up are DLC coated, slicker yet. All the Kx450's are cartage forks so the dampening oil does not get contaminated by dirt and bushing debris, better yet.

JFAB
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on December 08, 2009, 03:37:19 AM
I've ridden many hours on my uncle's 92 k5. First he had his stock forks changed by ?hlins, works good.
Later another stock(blue) set by www.technical-touch.com/ (http://www.technical-touch.com/). One of Europe's best suspension company's.
Worked even better than the ohlins rebuild forks, and the funny thing is they made it stock how the fork
would have come from the factory in 92!!!

Now he has 48mm Pure Ohlins forks on them, and that much and much better. Real smooth and progressif built up.
Only down side the offset wheel VS steeringstem is way of!!! on high speed it's now fun.
Maybe steering demper could work??

My AF has a kxf250 frame from 2007. And would say the forks works verry well in stock condition.
My oppinion is the newer the suspension the better.


Dutch
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on December 08, 2009, 03:48:06 AM
How did the 426 that you rode last week feel compared to the K5? I know thats what got you thinkin.  The 07 and up are DLC coated, slicker yet. All the Kx450's are cartage forks so the dampening oil does not get contaminated by dirt and bushing debris, better yet.

JFAB

you got it

but I like the geometry of the k5 for desert (new 450s are twitchy)

thinking I could have emig racing make me a clamp for a 04 k5 with new 450 holes.  New suspension. Old geometry.  
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: jfabmotorsports.com on December 08, 2009, 05:37:31 AM
I think they have the same offset. Someone else can conferm that in a min I'm sure. A simple stim change might be all it takes.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on December 08, 2009, 09:01:07 AM
On the same note I wonder how far off mounting and valving is on the rear shock. (newer bigger better)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on December 14, 2009, 11:59:56 AM
I think they have the same offset. Someone else can conferm that in a min I'm sure. A simple stim change might be all it takes.

The 06-08 kx450F is 24mm (I have read 24.5mm also) 
The 09 Kx450F is 23mm.

What was the K5 over the years in offset??




Also anyone have any fork diameter measurements (lower clamp mounting  and upper) off their 450's to share?


I also have wondered if they moved the fork spacing (distance between the forks) at all...


If we all measure somthing, we can work this out... there are enough of us with different bikes... This could be a very nice thing to do for those of us that prefer the geometry of the old steel frame, but want more modern suspension..
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: DoldGuy on December 14, 2009, 02:33:33 PM
And has anyone used different offsets what were the results. If you can post a before offset & after offset and what handling differences?
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: BDI on December 14, 2009, 03:37:17 PM
It's like comparing an atari 5200 to an X-box.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on December 29, 2009, 10:31:14 AM
Okay..

04-08 kx forks

Any differance between the years?

Any differances between the 250 and 450 forks?

any of those years better than others?


Title: Re: Forks
Post by: jfabmotorsports.com on December 29, 2009, 12:42:12 PM
07 and up are DLC coated. Better for less stick.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on December 29, 2009, 10:17:44 PM
The KXF 450 has dlc forks from 07 and for 05 to 10 use 48mm KYB.
The KXF 250 used 48mm KYB in 04 and 05, 47mm Showa from 06 and in 09 they got dlc coating.
And if I'm correct they are al dual chamberforks, not sure for the 04-05 kxf250's

Ofcourse DLC looks factory and has is plus points. But KYB USA use chroom tubes, S?lva what Cairoli used to become WorldChampion.

How modern suspension would you like to have Motorrad???


Dutch
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Danger4u2 on December 30, 2009, 04:01:09 AM
And has anyone used different offsets what were the results. If you can post a before offset & after offset and what handling differences?

I would like to know the answer to this question if someone could help.
I bought an Emig off set tripple clamp set and forks on craigslist Dallas, $125.
Have not installed yet.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: cbmoor on December 30, 2009, 08:57:42 AM
Has anyone tried Racetech gold valves in there forks. I just bought a set and a set of springs for my weight for my 2001 kx5. The valves are home and just waiting for the springs has anyone else tried fitting them themselves and encountered any problems? And have you been happy with the results it looks a challege as never worked so indepth on the suspension before but the kit was cheap so giving it a go if its no good I would proberly like to change the yolks and fit the newer twin chamber forks.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Friar-Tuck on December 30, 2009, 09:33:00 AM
    Attack Performance's Richard Stanboli on Triple Clamps
Danger this may help, not promoting anything, basic explanation.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7rrjnVMk-4
   Tuck\o/
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: ShadeTreeFab on December 30, 2009, 10:42:21 AM
thanks friar, those clamps were off the hook.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Dutch-K5 Fan on December 30, 2009, 10:55:25 AM
Searching around I found this http://www.rekluse.com/E-axles.html (http://www.rekluse.com/E-axles.html).

And the video give's a good explonation about it Fair-tuck.

Dutch
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Danger4u2 on December 31, 2009, 04:48:06 AM
Thanks Friar good video.  The Rekluse axle is a neat concept and it explains offset very well.  Thanks Dutch.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on January 01, 2010, 11:30:38 AM
Shot am email off to emig racing.

Hello Gary
I am in the process of converting 08 kx450f forks to fit a 1991 kx500 
for desert racing
I know you do alot of press in stem change conversions.

Curious If you have one that will press into the kx450 triples To 
adapt to the kx500 head tube.

If not. Is it possible to get a set of triple clamps made to the kx500 
specs (offset and bar mounts). But with fork holes to accept the kx450 
forks
  thanks for everything

David Olsen
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on January 01, 2010, 11:32:12 AM
Responce

David,
 
We probably have or can make you one quickly, ( I need to look on Monday) a stem with a top clamp bushing that will work for this conversion.
 
Conversion stems are $150 and bushing are $30.
 
Let me know if you need it...
 
Gary
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on January 01, 2010, 11:33:49 AM
Forgot to ask

Jerry is this somthing you would like to try and make??  Should be pretty easy, just need a stem with the same press measurements at the lower as a 450 with the rest being the same as a 500.... and a bushing for the top to clamp...   Right??

I am also worried about keeping the stock trail numbers...  As I dont want to change the way it handles too much.

Here is what I have come up with... missing a few numbers you guys may have knowldege of to piece everything together. (dont know if the stock triples off the 450's will mess things up without the missing numbers)   Need those to figure out if the axle location has been moved in or out...

Also if anyone has the numbers off a late Kx500 that would could help also (big fork version 03?)

I know that all the numbers are so close that if the triple offset is the same It will be a cake walk..

MY 1991 kx500
Trail:           4.57"
Head Angle:  27 Deg
Travel:         12.20"
Triple offest   22mm


06 KX450
Trail            4.6" (probly same)
Head Angle   27 Deg
Travel:        12.4"
Triple Offset  24mm

Title: Re: Forks
Post by: jfabmotorsports.com on January 03, 2010, 06:45:43 AM
David,
     I just did a similar deal to a Triumph a few weeks ago. This guy shows up with a 1976 Triumph something and a Harley springer front end that he bought on E-bay. Harleys have a 1' stim and the Triumph had a 3/4 I think. Anyway long story short, he's going down the road now.
    I would need to look at the two kaw parts but I think there is enough difference in the size of the stims that a bushing for both ends would be the easy way to go and just use the '91 stim. If not I could build the stim and upper bushing. The prices that you have do not seem out of line.
    I will measure the offset on a 91 today and get back to you. I think if the trail and head angle are the same then the offset has to be the same, assuming the forks are the same length.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on January 03, 2010, 07:57:12 AM
Offset could still be differant.   

Being larger forks the axle location could be moved  further out and made up for in offset

I think an entire new stem is more kosher. (two bushings would always worry me while runnin 100 cross the desert)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on January 11, 2010, 05:57:48 AM
Y 1991 kx500
Trail:           4.57"
Head Angle:  27 Deg
Travel:         12.20"
Triple offest.  22mm   


06 KX450
Trail            4.6" (probly same)
Head Angle   27 Deg
Travel:        12.4"
Triple Offset  24mm


Went ahead and ordered the stem from emig. 

Now I just need a front end off a 06-08 kx450f
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on September 08, 2010, 08:22:14 AM
Okay cant find it...  Need the Triple clamp offset off the last rendition of the Kx500 (2003 forks, forget the year spread)


I have been told my 91 has an offset of 22mm, and the 08 triples I have are 24mm.... wrong direction for a K5 (dont want slower steering yet)... Need to find out if I need to go with the 09 23mm or? before I pop for a scotts damper mount.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on September 08, 2010, 08:24:36 AM
Crap... 22mm is stock for late Kx500.... This means Im 2mm in the wrong direction...   To add insult to injury.. Just measured the fork length... the Kx450 fork is longer... hence making it even worse yet in the wrong direction... I can fake some of that by raising the forks in the clamps...

so stock trail number of 4.57

Ill be somewhere around 4.48

this is all assuming the kx500 clamps and kx450 run the same angle.... as I cant find those numbers to save my llife
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on September 09, 2010, 05:36:07 PM
Now that I do some research... I may not be too bad..  as it may make the bike turn better... Not sure if the front end will try to wash out... we will find out..    I run a damper so it should counter the effects I was worried about (instabilaty at speed)...  Or It will handle like garbage... any input is good input...

Am I right on that?   Not sure im thinking straight.. My brain is toast at the moment. More offset will make it turn faster, yet less fast stability?
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on September 10, 2010, 08:49:34 AM
Just got a reply from Destry abbott about what they ran on their 500's

"I'm 99% sure we changed ours to 23mm off-set."

So this means Im golden... Shweeeet. Always good news when your told you screwed up in the right direction ;)


Cant wait to pick up my forks and shock from Precision concepts tomarrow....

(was going to go racetech, till I found out they wanted $1600 for the custom rear shock I was planning on having them make)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: cbmoor on September 10, 2010, 10:28:17 AM
Motorrad,what is it your doing are you fitting new triple clamps for newer style forks. The reason I was asking was I am thinking the same but using the crf 08 tripple clamps as it has the possibility of using the crf stearing damper and the crf tripple trees are 22mm only the 2008 ones but its getting someone to make a new stem. I seen on this site somewhere some one else using a crf tripple trees.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on September 10, 2010, 11:47:22 AM
I have installed the entire front end off a 2008 kx450f. 

Had emig racing make me a steering stem. So everything just bolted on.  Easy as pie. 

Title: Re: Forks
Post by: cbmoor on September 11, 2010, 01:27:10 AM
Motorrad could you post some pictures of the new front end

Do the tripple tree stops still work

and have you had a chance to ride the bike if so how does it feel turning wise and stability.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on September 11, 2010, 05:50:39 PM
Motorrad could you post some pictures of the new front end

Do the tripple tree stops still work

and have you had a chance to ride the bike if so how does it feel turning wise and stability.


Had to make a new steering stop... very simple, tucks under the original... if I ever choose to go back to stock, or? I can take the bolts out, and it works as original (no wider than stock)

(note picture is before I welded it on)

Havnt ridden yet, All the suspension (forks and shock) are at Precision concepts being revalved and sprung for desert racing. and to play nice with eachother (work with eachother)... 

I figure it should turn better, and stability should be fine with the steering stabilizer... as destry abbott said, they ran 23mm and the pro-circiut  rear link... so 24mm should be very similar... If not, Ill get a set of 2009 triples (23mm)...

Here are the only two pictures I have at the moment in mock up stage...  Ill take more when I get it all back and put together for good.  Sorry they are taken with my phone
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/Motorrad2/1db362c0.jpg)
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/Motorrad2/49b465ec.jpg)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: cbmoor on September 11, 2010, 09:55:26 PM
Cheers for that it looks really good, Thats a good idea with the stops. Look forward to hearing how it rides and turns
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: ShadeTreeFab on September 12, 2010, 02:35:12 AM
hay motorrad, how much did the steam cost?
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on September 12, 2010, 06:34:32 AM
Stem was 150.  Bushing for top clamp he wanted 30. I made my own bushing.. Easy if you have a lathe..
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on September 15, 2010, 07:17:40 PM
picked my suspension up today... Forks feel great (off the bike, bounce test)...

Front end is On for good (need brake pad Pin.. dumb part)..

Need to mount my Baja Designs Dual sport kit.  (Yes, Dual sport Kit. (evil laugh))

Rout all cables wires etc etc..

plastics just hung on for end of night motivation...

Wow The different colored wheels Bothers me... Need to do somthing about that ASAP...

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/Motorrad/KXmotor/DSC_4108.jpg)

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/Motorrad/KXmotor/DSC_4118.jpg)

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/Motorrad/KXmotor/DSC_4122.jpg)

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/Motorrad/KXmotor/DSC_4121.jpg)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: cbmoor on September 15, 2010, 10:24:56 PM
Looking really good must get something done with mine now. But I must admit not sure I want to just yet as I have just got my frame powder coated and it would be a shame to start welding on the front of it just now. I wonder how hard it would be to get an enginering firm to make new tripple clamps that you could just install the kx5 stem. As for the wheels I thought the front wheel was interchangable with the Kxf. it is with my 2001 kx5. But the Blacks wheels look great on the bike I made a set up with excel rims with stainless spokes on the standard kx5 hubs.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on September 16, 2010, 04:30:17 AM
Emig racing was going to make me clamps for $800...   thats clamps/stem all pretty billit... 

The way this is welded on, you can cut it off, and never know it was done...
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on September 29, 2010, 07:24:40 PM
Forgot to add..
For the Record.
We decided to go with the following springs

Front (stock 2008 Kx450) .47kg
Rear. 5.6 Eibach

Will update how it feels as soon as I get it out to ride it.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: joko on April 16, 2011, 11:06:08 AM
 Motorad,  How does the new front end ride?
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on May 04, 2011, 07:19:13 AM
Motorad,  How does the new front end ride?

Rides good...
The front is setup to kx450 desert race valving. and it is CLOSE.. very very Close..  tHE REAR... he did lots of magic on to make it keep up with kx450 front end goodies.. (helps when you have a good friend that runs a division of precision concepts).. 

Last trip out I hit a DITCH at about 65mph... and If it was stock KX suspension I would have been on the ground bleeding... instead I just bottomed out and kept on going..

Ill give a better indepth of how it works what I want to change etc after this weekend.. as I will be able to get some HOURS on the bike... (No more 2 gal motor wonders)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Good on May 04, 2011, 08:11:50 AM
I think I have forks done by ZR1 racing but I'm not sure. I can't get it to bottom at all. I've flat landed 4th gear triple jumps and dropped off ledges that would've blown up my old 99 CR250 forks. I've said on a number of occasions that my k5 handling murders my old cr- by a long shot.

My problem is in the shock. It's fine for beginning type rides- like me after short hiatus, but once I start getting more comfortable and pick up the speed, there's a point when it starts to buck. If I were to hit a ditch at 65 it would buck me straight over the bars with authority and there's nothing I could do about it.

I'm happy with my forks per se, for my skill level, but I hate my shock.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on August 06, 2012, 02:05:06 PM
Bump to the top for JOKO

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/Motorrad/IMG_0137.jpg)

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/Motorrad/DSC_6663.jpg)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: conbread on April 28, 2013, 01:33:34 PM
i was wondering if you was able to run the k5 front wheel and brake setup, or did u have to run the 08 450 stuff???
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on June 15, 2015, 08:24:05 AM
Just got a reply from Destry abbott about what they ran on their 500's

"I'm 99% sure we changed ours to 23mm off-set."

So this means Im golden... Shweeeet. Always good news when your told you screwed up in the right direction ;)


Cant wait to pick up my forks and shock from Precision concepts tomarrow....

(was going to go racetech, till I found out they wanted $1600 for the custom rear shock I was planning on having them make)


bringing this one back from the dead.

Im not happy with the way the bike handles.

front end is washy.   and rear will just kick out when bombing a corner (perhapse this is the desert IT rebar tire)... not predictably.

Ive been faking this by running tubliss, with about 5psi in front tire, and 5 psi in rear.   pump the front up any more than that and its a bitch to ride.

I believe its all in the offset of the tripples is where my problem is.   suspension gurus? (ahem alward25)


MY 1991 kx500
Trail:           4.57"
Head Angle:  27 Deg
Travel:         12.20"
Triple offest   22mm


06 KX450
Trail            4.6" (probly same)
Head Angle   27 Deg
Travel:        12.4"
Triple Offset  24.5mm


Now looking for a 20mm or 22mm set of aftermarket clamps.

http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,14872.msg117025/topicseen.html#new
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: MRDART on June 15, 2015, 10:14:47 AM
Well the kx450-08 also has a tendency to wash out the front end, I know a lot of guys bought aftermarket trippleclamps with 22 mm or sometimes even 21 mm
 From what I can remember the kx500 (stock) doesn't have the same tendencies, so less offset would be preferable... Mind you I can only speak from mx experience, no trail or desert riding for me :-)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: alward25 on June 15, 2015, 11:56:24 AM
What is your rear shock high speed comp set at?  Too stiff can cause that too.  Front settings?
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on June 16, 2015, 03:27:44 AM
What is your rear shock high speed comp set at?  Too stiff can cause that too.  Front settings?

ugh. Ill find out.   all suspension was done by precision concepts local chaper for high speed desert set to me.

when I got it, I turned the damping up 2 clicks on the front.   rear felt good.


side note. anyone ever run differant offset clamps on their K5?   stretch I know...
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Danger4u2 on June 16, 2015, 04:59:44 AM
Back in 2006 thru 2009 when I was on my parts/bike buying spree I picked up
a fork set and offset Emig clamps.  I put them in the container and have never messed
with them.  I hope someday if/when I retire I will put them to use.
The p.o. said they make the K5 handle like a CR500.
My plan was to use them on my fat tire sand KX500, another project I haven't
gotten to.  I have all the parts, bike, just lost interest.  I have many projects like that.
I've been clearing out projects that I will never get to.  Like the CR500 AFC bike.
I bought it in 2007.  I rode the bike the day I bought it, brought it home, drained the
gas tank and it sat for 8 years.  A friend started bugging me about the bikes I have sitting one day.
He wants to make a Super Moto so I sold him the Honda for what I paid for it.
He told a friend of mine, "Every time I touch that bike I get hurt on it".
I say "Welcome to the half liter 2 stroke world".
If you would like, I can dig out the Emig clamps and see if they have any i.d. numbers
or what the offset might be.

For those NOT in the know....A quick guide to motorcycle rake, trail and offset.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/a-quick-guide-to-motorcycle-rake-trail-and-offset-part-1-83482.html
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: LukeG on June 16, 2015, 08:23:41 AM
Just in case any one wants to know, I have sent my 1990 250 triples to RSW racing to have a set of 13mm offset triples made. Knowing that they are the same for similar years 500s they could an option. My 250 is being built as a motard so I need reduced offset triples.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on June 16, 2015, 08:30:47 AM
Back in 2006 thru 2009 when I was on my parts/bike buying spree I picked up
a fork set and offset Emig clamps.  I put them in the container and have never messed
with them.  I hope someday if/when I retire I will put them to use.
The p.o. said they make the K5 handle like a CR500.
My plan was to use them on my fat tire sand KX500, another project I haven't
gotten to.  I have all the parts, bike, just lost interest.  I have many projects like that.
I've been clearing out projects that I will never get to.  Like the CR500 AFC bike.
I bought it in 2007.  I rode the bike the day I bought it, brought it home, drained the
gas tank and it sat for 8 years.  A friend started bugging me about the bikes I have sitting one day.
He wants to make a Super Moto so I sold him the Honda for what I paid for it.
He told a friend of mine, "Every time I touch that bike I get hurt on it".
I say "Welcome to the half liter 2 stroke world".
If you would like, I can dig out the Emig clamps and see if they have any i.d. numbers
or what the offset might be.

For those NOT in the know....A quick guide to motorcycle rake, trail and offset.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/a-quick-guide-to-motorcycle-rake-trail-and-offset-part-1-83482.html

If its not too much trouble.   Im curious what they put on the K5.   if going 20mm like I think would work is too radical.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: edgar_kx3 on June 16, 2015, 09:36:08 AM
I was looking at a set of 2011 forks and triples for my 500. I think them are still 23mm offset though. When I get it all going I will tell you how that works.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: edgar_kx3 on June 16, 2015, 10:59:01 AM
also didn't you say your 450 forks where longer? by how much? I just measured my 2013 kx450 forks and there roughly 943mm from the top of the upper tube to the center of the axle( I am not including the top cap) and my 500 was like 945ish. there within a couple mm of each other anyways. just curious..
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on June 16, 2015, 05:25:15 PM
Just thought of something.   Since my fork diameter change...  Assuming all else was the same... Change my tail numbers.  Since in theory the axle has to be further away from fork center.     Hmm. Drunken midnight bench racing..  I'll measure if that's a factor in the AM...
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on June 18, 2015, 10:23:37 AM
Just thought of something.   Since my fork diameter change...  Assuming all else was the same... Change my tail numbers.  Since in theory the axle has to be further away from fork center.     Hmm. Drunken midnight bench racing..  I'll measure if that's a factor in the AM...

Yes. this changes things also.

center of fork for the blue legs I have is roughly 28mm
center of fork to the axle center of kx450 is roughly 33mm.

just right there I gained +5mm in offset.

crap.

no wonder its handling like it is.

anyone have a good trail calculator?
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: DoldGuy on June 18, 2015, 02:17:57 PM
Just for testing purposes....trailing axle (-5mm) versus leading axle.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on June 18, 2015, 03:50:02 PM
Just thought of something.   Since my fork diameter change...  Assuming all else was the same... Change my tail numbers.  Since in theory the axle has to be further away from fork center.     Hmm. Drunken midnight bench racing..  I'll measure if that's a factor in the AM...

Yes. this changes things also.

center of fork for the blue legs I have is roughly 28mm
center of fork to the axle center of kx450 is roughly 33mm.

just right there I gained +5mm in offset.

crap.

no wonder its handling like it is.

anyone have a good trail calculator?

RE-measured this.    not as much differance as when I quickly eyeballed it durring lunch.   
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on June 19, 2015, 01:57:08 AM
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html



MY 1991 kx500
Trail:           4.57"
Head Angle:  27 Deg
Travel:         12.20"
Triple offest   22mm
Axle offset (work backwards) = 21.7mm
Total offset (working backwards)= 43.7mm


06 KX450
Trail            4.6" (probly same)
Head Angle   27 Deg
Travel:        12.4"
Triple Offset  24.5mm
Total offset to achieve trail (working backwards)= 43mm
Axle offset (working backwards) = 20.6mm


Other.
Dunlop 80/100=  27.72” (704.088mm)
Dunlop 90/100= 27.99” (710.946mm)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on June 19, 2015, 03:21:19 AM
so.  based on all those numbers.   both bikes came with same sized front tire from factory.  same head angle, only differance is .8mm in trail.   but the tripple clamp offset of the two goes the wrong way to achieve this. so the larger 450 forks would have to have less axle offset to make up for these changes.   20.6mm working backwards to be exact........

Hmm.   Need to go measure this tonight to confirm.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: sandblaster on June 19, 2015, 05:03:13 AM
Munching popcorn...  :-o
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: edgar_kx3 on June 20, 2015, 02:24:20 AM
2014 kx250f came factory with 22.5 offset triples. Im thinking I will try the 250f forks would like to stay KYB but can get some 2008 250f forks cheap.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Captainc on July 13, 2015, 06:07:31 AM
2014 kx250f came factory with 22.5 offset triples. Im thinking I will try the 250f forks would like to stay KYB but can get some 2008 250f forks cheap.

Hi, I'm a total newbie here and have just bought a basically new 1989 500. What did you guys find was the easiest way of upgrading the forks. I see some are saying 2008 kxf450 some are saying 2013 kxf250. Can you help
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 18, 2015, 04:43:30 PM
Did some axle offset measuring tonight... Found my handling issue.   Will update with numbers and the fix tomorrow
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 18, 2015, 05:10:03 PM
2014 kx250f came factory with 22.5 offset triples. Im thinking I will try the 250f forks would like to stay KYB but can get some 2008 250f forks cheap.

Hi, I'm a total newbie here and have just bought a basically new 1989 500. What did you guys find was the easiest way of upgrading the forks. I see some are saying 2008 kxf450 some are saying 2013 kxf250. Can you help

89 conventional leg forks are awesome.  I'd spring em and set them up for your weight and run them...   Loved the 89 forks I ran on my 87.   
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 19, 2015, 05:43:38 AM
The fix..  And my bike should be faster since my wallet is lighter now

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/Motorrad2/Mobile%20Uploads/1437262952167_758957997_fa327975.jpg) (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Motorrad2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1437262952167_758957997_fa327975.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Enginerd on July 19, 2015, 05:52:00 AM
89 conventional leg forks are awesome.  I'd spring em and set them up for your weight and run them...   Loved the 89 forks I ran on my 87.   
I have a set of these. I've been on the fence about trying them on my 95. Maybe I should give them a try.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 19, 2015, 06:03:13 AM
Okay. Blue leg fork
Leg bottom= 43mm
Bottom to axle outer= 40.79mm
Axle diam= 21.91mm
Axle offset= (40.79-(43/2))+(21.91/2)
                   = 30.245mm


2008 kx450 fork
Leg bottom= 33mm
Leg to axle outer= 37.33mm
Axle diam= 24.88mm
Axle offset= (37.33-(33/2))+(24.88/2)
                   =33.27mm

So
Kx500 total offset= 30.245mm +22mm
                                = 52.245mm
Kx450 total offset= 33.27mm + 24.5mm
                                = 57.77mm

Difference of positive 5.525mm of offset change...

Yikes!

The fix.......
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: KXDINO on July 19, 2015, 06:26:58 AM
2015 450 f forks
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 19, 2015, 08:39:36 AM
2015 450 f forks

I would still have the same issue.... F-ed up geometry

  And not sure how I feel about the new fork technology yet.   Heck I still call upside down ones new fangled witch craft....


Here is my fix

Puts all my geometry back to stock...   I'm in the process of pressing out my custom steering stem and pressing it into the new clamps...

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/Motorrad2/Mobile%20Uploads/20150719_132825.jpg) (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Motorrad2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150719_132825.jpg.html)

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/Motorrad2/Mobile%20Uploads/20150719_132836.jpg) (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Motorrad2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150719_132836.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 19, 2015, 01:45:00 PM
Next issue... Fork length......

To be continued....
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: sandblaster on July 19, 2015, 03:23:36 PM
Okay. Blue leg fork
Leg bottom= 43mm
Bottom to axle outer= 40.79mm
Axle diam= 21.91mm
Axle offset= (40.79-(43/2))+(21.91/2)
                   = 30.245mm


2008 kx450 fork
Leg bottom= 33mm
Leg to axle outer= 37.33mm
Axle diam= 24.88mm
Axle offset= (37.33-(33/2))+(24.88/2)
                   =33.27mm

So
Kx500 total offset= 30.245mm +22mm
                                = 52.245mm
Kx450 total offset= 33.27mm + 24.5mm
                                = 57.77mm

Difference of positive 5.525mm of offset change...

Yikes!

The fix.......


Hey... You told me you didn't do millimeters....  :-P
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 19, 2015, 03:50:29 PM
Okay. Blue leg fork
Leg bottom= 43mm
Bottom to axle outer= 40.79mm
Axle diam= 21.91mm
Axle offset= (40.79-(43/2))+(21.91/2)
                   = 30.245mm


2008 kx450 fork
Leg bottom= 33mm
Leg to axle outer= 37.33mm
Axle diam= 24.88mm
Axle offset= (37.33-(33/2))+(24.88/2)
                   =33.27mm

So
Kx500 total offset= 30.245mm +22mm
                                = 52.245mm
Kx450 total offset= 33.27mm + 24.5mm
                                = 57.77mm

Difference of positive 5.525mm of offset change...

Yikes!

The fix.......


Hey... You told me you didn't do millimeters....  :-P

Your right...   Unlike the peanut gallery..... My wife likes INCHES
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: KXDINO on July 19, 2015, 07:31:02 PM
I rode my k5 std with the 15 forks it handled and turned better than the std forks.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 20, 2015, 01:50:07 AM
I rode my k5 std with the 15 forks it handled and turned better than the std forks.

Very interesting.   did you just slap them on?  use the 2015 triple clamps?  have you measured your trail numbers before and after?
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: KXDINO on July 20, 2015, 06:06:59 AM
Slip forks and wheel in and rode it , just as that guy who won the 2 stroke race thing in usa , sean colliers , than mxa magazine tested it, our forks were fully gold valve as well , they were off my sons 15 450 , sadly they had to go on the 15 bike , as it up for sale to be replaced by a 16 , I did not worry about measurements , std k5 triple clamps , whole 15 front brake as well , one day I will switch to this front end when they become more available , at the moment I saw a set for 1k , to much for me , I wait and get a roller with a stuffed engine . We tested this set up at my own track against the 01 framed k5 to see how it went , the front showed no signs of washing out , held its line well and stayed up in the stroke better , impressed.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 20, 2015, 06:36:24 AM
I'd be interested to measure those forks. May go to the dealer this week to figure up their offset... I'd bet they do change the offset a positive amount, but it's less noticeable than mine due to running the stock tripple.  Which I couldn't do....  Even mine took a while to really notice... But once I did.. It drive me crazy.  

I also need to measure a later model set of k5 forks..   I'd bet they are different than my blue leg ones...  And kawi never bothered to update the trail information in the paperwork, since it would have been a small change (+2mm axle offset if I had to guess

which If that is the case.  a change to the later model 2015 forks from the later model K5 forks in stock triple clamps, would in all accounts feel like it handles the same, as it would only be a +1mm change in offset.


somone needs to measure axle offset on late model K5 forks, so everyone in the future knows what they are dealing with, when they just plug in a late model set of forks.
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 21, 2015, 02:34:34 AM
Fork length............

Okay. at first I thought I had an issue.   Since my 450 forks were so much longer than my blue leg forks....

So I called up MR Sandblaster to dig through his junk piles and measure some K5 forks for me.

Hmm.   all his measure the same as my 450 forks...   even his blue leg ones.  :|

Being my forks were off one of wards bikes.   Perhapse there is some team green magic in them to make them shorter for short jeff ward................


speaking of short.  

Ive decided to remove the Emig dogbone in the rear of mine, to lower it  back down (too d**n tall for me)....     re-install the stocker.   but to compensate, suck the forks up in the triple clamps.

The "FIX" that Procirciut  originally made those bones for, was to fix the KX buck that you got due too too agressive of a linkage rise (emig link makes rear softer).    But this was for stock suspension, all mine has been revalved etc, to do away with that issue already, so all the emig link is doing for me is raising the rear for better turning.... somthing I can achieve with fork hight.

Poking around the 450 forums The 450 guys seem to like 10-12mm up in the clamps (stock is 6ish)..     so Im going to go for 12mm, and run a bit more sag in the rear.as I like my bikes with a wee bit more sag.. (will probaly run 105ish.mm in rear).  If its twitchy, Ill lower the forks.   But since I run a scotts damper.   I bet its fine.

thoughts?
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/Motorrad2/Mobile%20Uploads/20150721_061114.jpg) (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Motorrad2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150721_061114.jpg.html)
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/Motorrad2/Mobile%20Uploads/20150721_061126.jpg) (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Motorrad2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150721_061126.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 22, 2015, 02:08:54 AM
The bike feels a mile and a half lower.    holy Cow.........

its like sitting on my nephews KX65.  :lol:
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: reklessj on July 24, 2015, 01:28:04 PM
The bike feels a mile and a half lower.    holy Cow.........

its like sitting on my nephews KX65.  :lol:
Just your size then!!!  :wink:
When are we gonna get the families together and ride?
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on July 25, 2015, 08:07:38 AM
Just measured the 2015 fork...  Same offset as my 08..  (Rough measurement)...    So the 2015 fork would change geometry. Based on my blue leg fork measurements....     Now my theory of kawi changing things with the later forks and never updating their propaganda still may hold true...   Which of why perhaps no difference was noticed going from late forks to 2015...  But mine was going from blue to 2008.....
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on August 10, 2015, 04:32:42 AM
rode the bike this weekend.    couldnt do the full high speed desert stuff as normal (its 108F out there right now)...

but low speed, trails etc.    its MILES BETTER.    holy hell.  it handles awesome!!!!..  time will tell with the 5th gear WOT sand wash stuff....


current setting.

20mm offset clamps.
forks are 10mm up in the clamps (measured from top of fork, not cap).
Rear race sag set at 104.75mm
90/100 mx71 front  with tubliss running 8psi
maxxis desert IT rear running ZERO PSI tubliss.


somone still needs to measure axle offset of the later KX500 forks for future peoples information......
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Motorrad on August 24, 2015, 10:49:10 AM
To give you an idea of how it sits now..

Before with emig bones.
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/Motorrad2/Mobile%20Uploads/20150103_100353.jpg) (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Motorrad2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150103_100353.jpg.html)

After

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/Motorrad2/Mobile%20Uploads/1438995382317_3121981853_fa327975_1.jpg) (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Motorrad2/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1438995382317_3121981853_fa327975_1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Forks
Post by: Danger4u2 on August 24, 2015, 11:27:21 AM
Looks good, wish I had that kind of riding area.