KX Riders
Commercially available service offered by members of KXRiders. => OEM-CYCLE => Topic started by: sandblaster on October 13, 2016, 05:26:07 PM
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For those that missed it KX Guru Racing is doing a freshen up on Sean's current KX500 The Beast.
Here is the full details up to this point
http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=1193 (http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=1193)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4601)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4671)
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4689)
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And just in case you were wondering.... Yes we are still working on Sean's new bike build...
Sponsors, Suppliers, Magazine shoots, Races, Woohoo! 8-)
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(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4710)
When I tell people that our builds are like giving away our children I was joking :-P
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4722)
Bearings..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1MBjrWXlEk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1MBjrWXlEk)
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Hurry Oscar... The race is in a few days... :-o
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4740)
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(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4710)
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Be carefull nobody kicks over that motor with the inlet plate on as u could suck a seal or damage case seal {a pump with no bleed off}
You know how everbody love turning over a new motor for no reason {inc myself grin}
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Good call.
I'd love to see someone turn that engine over with no kick lever :lol:
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You would call that guy or girl sir or madam if they could. :-D
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Yes I would :-o
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I am pretty sure I could kick it over. Maybe only onto it's side, doubt I could turn it completely over... :lol: :-D 8-) Not really sure what the kick lever or the intake plate would have to do with it? :evil: :-P
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:-D
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Good call.
I'd love to see someone turn that engine over with no kick lever :lol:
Its easy to stick on a kicklever when refitting the motor [Takes a few seconds}
People love to see what compression a new motor has
Checking for spark is another reason
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Wrapping up this build is a bit scary.
Oscar is assembling the bike down in S. Cal.
He should be able to put some heat cycles on it and ride it on Friday to break it in.
Sean races on Saturday :shock:
What we did to this engine to freshen it up was not what we wanted to do.
It was all we were allowed to do.
I saw a lot of room for improvement but that was just the point.
They didn't want any improvements other then longevity and better shifting.
I will get more into that later.. Cool things are coming 8-)
But here is the basic list:
Disassemble, clean, and carefully inspect EVERYTHING.
Vapor blast all the aluminum, and polish everything that could be polished, head, trans gears, trans shafts, ect.
Replaced all the shift components with used but in spec parts.
All were hand polished.
Replaced the clutch plates.
Hand ground the dogs on the trans gears.
Replaced the piston and Ring set with a very low hour set from my own bike.
Every bearing, seal, and gasket, was replaced.
Hand filed the clutch basket ears and the clutch hub, then polished them.
The left engine case was replaced as the existing one was junk.
Hand lapped the cases, cylinder, and head.
Disassembled the carb, cleaned it thoroughly, reset the floats, and set the screws to how they were when we received it.
It really could have used a plate job but we just didn't have the time or the money to do it.
Also, some of the gears were pretty poor but I think after Jason tuned them up they should be ok for a while.
So, it wasn't what we would have liked to do but it should survive until we get Sean's new bike built.
Now it's time for Oscar and Alex to chime in with what they did..
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"Wrapping up this build is a bit scary.
Oscar is assembling the bike down in S. Cal.
He should be able to put some heat cycles on it and ride it on Friday to break it in.
Sean races on Saturday"
Gee, nothing like cutting it close! :-o
Hope all goes well. Looked nice!
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Wrapping up this build is a bit scary.
Oscar is assembling the bike down in S. Cal.
He should be able to put some heat cycles on it and ride it on Friday to break it in.
Sean races on Saturday :shock:
What we did to this engine to freshen it up was not what we wanted to do.
It was all we were allowed to do.
I saw a lot of room for improvement but that was just the point.
They didn't want any improvements other then longevity and better shifting.
I will get more into that later.. Cool things are coming 8-)
But here is the basic list:
Disassemble, clean, and carefully inspect EVERYTHING.
Vapor blast all the aluminum, and polish everything that could be polished, head, trans gears, trans shafts, ect.
Replaced all the shift components with used but in spec parts.
All were hand polished.
Replaced the clutch plates.
Hand ground the dogs on the trans gears.
Replaced the piston and Ring set with a very low hour set from my own bike.
Every bearing, seal, and gasket, was replaced.
Hand filed the clutch basket ears and the clutch hub, then polished them.
The left engine case was replaced as the existing one was junk.
Hand lapped the cases, cylinder, and head.
Disassembled the carb, cleaned it thoroughly, reset the floats, and set the screws to how they were when we received it.
It really could have used a plate job but we just didn't have the time or the money to do it.
Also, some of the gears were pretty poor but I think after Jason tuned them up they should be ok for a while.
So, it wasn't what we would have liked to do but it should survive until we get Sean's new bike built.
Now it's time for Oscar and Alex to chime in with what they did..
Well, not much....I am one heck of a cheerleader. Sandblaster took this thing on full bore and put a lot of time and money into something we were not patient enough to wait for pledged outside money and support. Hats off to Sandblaster and USMC500 for all the work.
I overhauled the rear shock and revalved it. New Pro Action Valve, Seal head assy, bumper, and bladder. Serviced with only the best year nitrogen and Amsoil 5 wt shock therapy oil. I also provided a complete Cometic gasket set with the base gasket cut with the small KIPS drum holes.
Can't wait to see how this thing will rip!!!!
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Everybody involved contributed.
KX Guru Racing is not a Company, Corporation, Entity, or Individual.
It's a collaboration of guys that love the KX500 and want to see it continue being rode and improved for years to come.
And a lot of what we did was inspired by members of this forum.
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Sunday is the big day.... Providing Oscar doesn't destroy the bike when breaking it in today :-o
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Yesterday, Oscar broke in the new engine.
Tomorrow he will put on all the new parts so take one last look at this bike,
This is the last time you will see it in this trim.
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4744)
When you see it on Sunday it will have taken it's first steps to becoming KX Guru'd :-D
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4745)
Here is a update from Oscar over at KXuru.com
USMC 500
The Beast now has a total of 1.2 hours on the hour meter. The 2 most noticeable improvements on the Beast are the Chassis and the Tranny.
The Beast was treated to Pivot Works bearings all the way around.....wheels, steering, shock linkage, shock and swingarm. This bike feels very tight and has the feeling of a brand new motorcycle.
The Transmission......Mike and Jason did a phenomenal job getting the transmission to function properly. Previously the transmission would jump out of gear and you would have to really slam the shifter to make gear changes under load. The transmission now shifts like butter. The shift lever gives zero resistance when making gear changes and inspires confidence.
The motor is no slouch either. I spent the first hour just cruising around to get all the new engine parts to mingle and meet. Just before loading the Beast I made about 5 good 5th gear WOT passes and the Beast passed with flying colors. There is a little work that still needs to be done as far as jetting goes but that will get done at the race on Sunday.
Tomorrow will be another busy day.......there is still much to be done before Sunday's race:
Wash the bike
Torque check the head and cylinder again
change the gearbox oil
Modify and install new Torc 1 rear brake lever
Install new Torc 1 handlebar and grips
Install and test fit new Torc 1 foot pegs
clean the air filter :-o ........those who know the history of MY bike will understand. lol
Install new factory FMF pipe and silencer
Mount all new bodywork
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We are coming down to round one with the beast....
We shall see what happens.
Nice job on the chassis prep and assembly Oscar.
Few people will ever understand what you went through on this rebuild...
I'm really looking forward to seeing how Sean likes the suspension...
I'm certain that Alex is wondering as well 8-)
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Break in ride pic... Much more is coming on that..
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4746)
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Coolbuild.
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Race day!
After the practice session Sean says the engine runs as good as it ever did but shifts better then it ever did...
Not bad considering all the used parts we used to build the engine.
He really likes the job that Alex did with the Pro Action internals in the rear shock.
So, we will see how things go... Later today..
Here's a pic of Sean getting ready for practice
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4748)
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Getting the launch pad ready to go..
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4749)
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Good luck to Sean and KXGuru racing. I hope you guys crush the field.
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GO CHECKERS
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The suspense is killing me. How did he do on The Beast 2.0?
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I'd call it the Beast 1.05... Remember, all I could do to the engine was disassemble, clean, inspect, and replace with used parts... I could not make any performance improvements other then make it shift smoother... There are good reasons for that which will be covered in detail in later posts...
The frame was replaced and gusseted..
The shock had a complete rebuild by Alex Ward using Pro Action parts...
How did Sean do?
How did Sean like the bike?
This is where Oscar comes in... Oscar :?
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Let's get some coffee in Oscar and get him in here. :-D
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so, what fuel is/was being run it?
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Oscar has been really swamped but we are talking about all the details and putting together the info everyone wants.
Just be patient a few more days and we will have the hows, where's, when's, and why's, we all want.
On a side note, we should have all the parts back from WPC treatments early next week so we can start putting the bottom end together on Sean's new bike 8-)
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WPC?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSiC7D8patU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSiC7D8patU)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvKH-BYQcoM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvKH-BYQcoM)
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That's impressive! I can't wait to see what parts you coated with it.
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That's impressive! I can't wait to see what parts you coated with it.
Treated, not coated! Pretty trick $h!t, is it pricey?
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From my understanding it is about 400.
From what others are saying, their parts are lasting about 1.5 to 2X longer.
If that is true then it is well worth it.
I'll be posting pics when I get them...
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The following has been provided by USMC... Oscar Cota,,,
Thanks Oscar..
Sorry for the late reply but here is the race breakdown.....
DNF (27th) first race
5th second race
16th Overall
Keep in mind that Sean was racing on a motorcycle designed in the late 1980's that was finished being put together at 10pm the night before with zero test time.
Also keep in mind that in the second race Sean was racing against factory level pro racers on state of the art factory equipment that race/ride on a regular basis. Sean on the other hand hasn't raced since June at Mammoth and has only ridden twice since then......here are the links to the two times he rode since Mammoth......
https://youtu.be/U1m3jJgygC4
https://youtu.be/RxdB0eeR4uQ
Sean was in awesome spirits when he arrived at the track and saw the rebuild bike that KX Guru Racing had delivered. Bike fired on the first kick and immediately there was a crowd drawn around the Fasthouse / Gasper Transportation canopy. Sean jumped on the bike and headed out for practice with only 1.2 hours on the hour meter which I had put on the bike during break in. After a few laps Sean came in a stated that the bike was definitely more responsive and powerful than before, the chassis felt much tighter than before, and Pro Action rear shock that Alex Ward at Crazy Al's racing had built was phenomenal. It was after practice that we encountered our first little issue. During a downshift the Torc 1 Shift Lever had stripped the threads and was rendered unusable. Sean came in and we had to ditch the Torc 1 shift lever for the stocker. This issue was not related to the quality of the shifter. Out of habit I usually torque all fasteners to factory spec and I had done the same with the shifter. Unfortunately the stock shifter and the Torc 1 shifter are made of different metals and factory spec torque is not sufficient for the aftermarket shifter. I'll speak more on this later in this write up.
Issue 2 came during the first race......
Sean got a rough start when he experienced some clutch chatter off the start and then began to fight a wheelie prone KX500 all the way to the first turn. Sean ended up with a 10th place start against some of the top Pro vet riders in the world. As the laps clicked away Sean was dicing through the pack and was about to make a pass for 4th on the 6th lap when he ended up pulling off the track. My heart sunk as I feared the worst of engine failures. Back at the pits Sean was all smiles and said the bike was running awesome but it felt as though the bike was running out of fuel. The weather out there was in the mid 80's and it seemed as though the bike was vapor locking. Sean decided to pull off the track in fear of the bike bogging off the face of a jump. To remedy this we obtained some heat insulation tape and taped the bottom of the tank where the head seemed to be heating up the fuel. We also wrapped the carburetor float bowl. Not sure if this was the issue or not we also cut the fuel down from 100% VP C-12 to 50/50 C-12 and 91 octane. This was no longer an issue for the rest of the race. I'll speak more on this later in this write up.
The final 2 issues came in race 2.......
Sean ended up getting a holeshot even with the clutch chatter issues and went into the first turn neck and neck with Factory KTM test rider Mike Sleeter. After the first lap Sean had settled into a 3rd place slot behind Mike Sleeter and World GP New Zealand racer Josh Coppins. Sean was on the heels of Josh Coppins the majority of the race and every spectator present was going crazy over the #207 KX500 ripping around the track. Sean Eventually ended the race in 5h place against some of the best riders on the best machines. As it turns out Sean had lost the tip of his Torc 1 racing rear brake lever on the second lap and was racing severely handicapped without a rear brake for the whole race. Sean had also experienced Shock fade which made the bike very bouncy and unstable going though the rough Glen Helen track. Despite all these factors Sean still brought the KX Guru Racing prepped KX500 home in 5th place.
Now to touch on the issues experienced in detail.....
The Torc 1 Shifter was tight around the splines and had performed well during my break in ride. Sean had even mentioned that he absolutly loved the feel of that shifter. After consulting with my fellow KX Guru's I took the Torc 1 Shifter to the garage and tested it to failure. I tightened down the bolt of the shifter with an 8 mm wrench as tight as I could by hand and the threads never faltered. I then took my torque wrench and turned on the bolt and found that the bolt head snapped off before the threads gave out. The lesson learned here is that the Torc 1 shifter needs to be tightened down as hard as possible by hand with Loctite without fear of stripping threads because the quality of the metal of the Torc 1 shifter is top notch.
The issue of the bike bogging from lack of fuel.....
This is just a theory as cutting the fuel to a 50/50 blend and the heat strips seemed to cure the problem but we were running Motul 800 premix and it had been mixed at the track at 32:1. Unfortunately 32:1 is an old wives tale during the days when oils were not that great. Motul states that their mix is formulated to be ran at 50:1. Heavy oil mix causes a lean condition and with the unstable C-12 race fuel we can only imagine that the fuel was boiling because of this. Lean condition and race fuel caused the bike to run hotter which was evident by the discoloration on the head of the FMF pipe and the high temperature of the pipe at the stinger was radiating onto the shock which caused it to fade. Lesson learned.
The issue of the Torc 1 rear brake lever tip falling off....
After speaking with Ryan Pursley of Torc 1 he informed me that they do not Loctite their hardware because it is designed to be adjustable and it is in the instructions that once the end user adjusted the lever it should be secured with Loctite. Other than that the rear brake lever like the shifter worked and felt great.
All in all the weekend went great and Sean we extremely please and excited about the bike. We learned some lessons using KX450 components on a KX500 and we would have discovered these issues had we had a chance to test with Sean. We are going to continue on with the Torc 1 products as they are great products and we now understand that the proper way to install them on a vibrating KX500. Sean also mentioned that the Torc 1 footpegs that we adapted to the KX500 felt incredible and gave him improved feel and control of the bike. We will also be mixing the fuel according to manufacture specs and not according to the age old method of 32:1.
We now move on to the new Project KX500 with lessons learned from the current Beast. The goal will be to have both #207 KX500's side by side at Day in the Dirt in a few weeks. I encourage any questions that anyone may have as I was only able to touch on a few items in this write up.
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My thoughts so far...
This bike was built at the last minute with mostly 20 year old used parts on a chassis that was designed 30 years ago..
Basically we handed the bike to Sean just barely broke in.
Even the piston and rings were used.
Sean had no practice time before hand.
We had four technical problems that were easily solved.
1. Torque the Torque One Racing shift lever higher then factory specs and loctite it.
2. Loctite the Torque One Racing rear brake lever toe piece.
3. Use Amsoil 10/40 in the gear box to eliminate clutch chatter.
4. Use 50:1 oil in the premix, not 32:1 to help with overheating and blend the C12 with 50% pump gas.
All these issues would have been manifest before hand if Sean had the time to take the bike out and ride it before the race.
Sean last raced in June with only two rides since then.
Like the rest of us at KX Guru Racing, Sean has a day job and a family.
None of us get to ride as much as we would like.
Something else to mention, in the second race, Sean got the hole shot against world class riders on factory prepped bikes.
How much money did those bikes have dumped into them?
Other then having the compression bumped a bit, and a very mild port job, the KX500 engine was mostly stock.
Just imagine what the factories could do with the KX500 platform if they wanted to.
Just image what we could do with even a modest amount of factory support.
Remember, KX Guru Racing is made up of non trained, garage mechanics, with a love of big bore 2 stroke engines.
Except for some porting tools and my Vapor Blaster (Fancy cleaning machine), we have no special tools or equipment.
Another important detail to point out is what will be done to prep this bike for the next race.
Wash the bike.
Since it is so new, re-torque the nuts and bolts.
Clean the air filter.
Lube the chain.
Check the tire pressure before the next race.
What maintenance will the big factory guys be doing to their bikes before the next race?
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I saw the results from an e-mail MXA sent out. I was sad to see the DNF, but pleased to see how well he did in the second moto. I can't wait to see what he can do on the full KXGuru bike. Great job guys!
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Yes, it was sad... and a bit scary hearing about it by Voxer and not having a clear idea of what happened... Oscar...
All I can say is lessons learned and wait till the next race.... We will find many more lessons before this is all over I'm sure 8-)
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No racing team ever got it perfect the first time out. You guys were competing with larger teams, with a older design, without a lot of mods that you wanted to make. I think you guys have a bright future. When are the two stroke world championships?
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Two weeks... Gulp... :-o
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That'll tighten the old sphincter. :-o When is the improved bike going to be done?
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That'll tighten the old sphincter. :-o When is the improved bike going to be done?
Two weeks... :lol:
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I've received a few pm's from some people expressing sadness or disappointment in our finishing.
After all we all love this bike and people love a winner.
First I want to say, That's racing folks :lol:
Remember, we are up against full factory supported riders, on the most modern equipment.
Guys that ride and race for a living.
Sean's last raced in June and rode twice since then.
He doesn't even work out.
As a team, we have never done this before and never worked together before.
Factory backed riders have well oiled teams and everyone is a expert in what they do.
Sean had no practice time ahead of the race which would have revealed what were individually minor issues.
We had people working on the bike who know little to nothing about the kx500.
We had no monetary support, except what team members donated.
Nearly all the engine parts were used.
The cylinder plating was worn out to where you can see bare aluminum around the exhaust port.
We were not allowed to modify the engine performance wise.
We had almost no time to rebuild the bike.
The list goes on and on.
I can't say that we couldn't have done better, but we were severely handicapped, and finishing 5th in the final race with no back brake was nothing short of amazing 8-)
So, stay tuned because we are just getting started.
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good stuff fellas , love seeing old bikes beating new bikes , we do this stuff as well, my son whips late model ktm and wrs on the trip across fraser island which is deep sand pitted with tree roots , always denting rims thou , does this on a 2000 kdx200 which gets the magic modified wand waved over it , getting back to the k5 std which i have and a k5 hybrid , preparation and tried modification is a must as these bikes with the power they put out seem to destroy things fast , the more you do to them the better they get , it a question of how much money , time ,and testing you have. keep up the good work fellas.
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I've received a few pm's from some people expressing sadness or disappointment in our finishing.
After all we all love this bike and people love a winner.
First I want to say, That's racing folks :lol:
Remember, we are up against full factory supported riders, on the most modern equipment.
Guys that ride and race for a living.
Sean's last raced in June and rode twice since then.
He doesn't even work out.
As a team, we have never done this before and never worked together before.
Factory backed riders have well oiled teams and everyone is a expert in what they do.
Sean had no practice time ahead of the race which would have revealed what were individually minor issues.
We had people working on the bike who know little to nothing about the kx500.
We had no monetary support, except what team members donated.
Nearly all the engine parts were used.
The cylinder plating was worn out to where you can see bare aluminum around the exhaust port.
We were not allowed to modify the engine performance wise.
We had almost no time to rebuild the bike.
The list goes on and on.
I can't say that we couldn't have done better, but we were severely handicapped, and finishing 5th in the final race with no back brake was nothing short of amazing 8-)
So, stay tuned because we are just getting started.
Sadness or disappointment????? What?!!
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My thought also. First go with a fresh bike? Yeah, I'd say you guys did better than just 'Ok'... Nice Job!
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Keep your heads held high boys, it's all about having fun and well, s**t happens.
Hopefully you get some time to test to confirm that the shock fading and lean condition is remedied with the fuel/oil mixture, it sounds strange to me but you guys have forgotten more than I will ever know about these things.
I loved reading the build you guys did on this bike, you sure put a lot of elbow grease into that engine. Very admirable!
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Thanks!
Yes, I think we have Sean's old bike (The Beast) pretty well dialed in right now...
But it will take some hard runs to verify.
On Sean's new bike I think Jason will end up assembling the engine on the way down there..
13hr 23min Drive time at 869 mi.
I think we will do a bit better time wise but there will still be a lot of assembly time :lol:
Again, we are down to the wire and will have to break in the engine once we get there, hand it to Sean, and let him race. Not exactly ideal...
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2 weeks till Race day and this is where we are at.
I don't have any engine internals... Or Suspension internals...
And I have to drive 900 miles to get there.... :-o
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4762)
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if you ever wanna get rid of that '01 seat....I'll take it, providing there's no tears in it...just name your price.
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4762)
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I don't know about stuff like that.... Oscar?
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if you ever wanna get rid of that '01 seat....I'll take it, providing there's no tears in it...just name your price.
(http://www.oem-cycle.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4762)
Can't sell you the whole seat but we just had Guts racing rebuild that seat for us. They replaced the foam and the cover but obviously had to use the seat pan. They should be sending me back the seat cover that came off. If they do and it isn't destroyed you can have it if you want. :-)
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Can't sell you the whole seat but we just had Guts racing rebuild that seat for us. They replaced the foam and the cover but obviously had to use the seat pan. They should be sending me back the seat cover that came off. If they do and it isn't destroyed you can have it if you want. :-)
I'll keep that in mind....thanks!
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Any intentions of runnin' the Big 6 GP series? I'm debating on which 500 to run...my KX or my CR (af)...Best of luck on the next race
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Can't sell you the whole seat but we just had Guts racing rebuild that seat for us. They replaced the foam and the cover but obviously had to use the seat pan. They should be sending me back the seat cover that came off. If they do and it isn't destroyed you can have it if you want. :-)
I'll keep that in mind....thanks!
I'm sorry brother. Guts racing damaged the cover as they were removing it.
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Any intentions of runnin' the Big 6 GP series? I'm debating on which 500 to run...my KX or my CR (af)...Best of luck on the next race
I have spoken to Sean about the Big 6 series and he has expressed interest in it however there aren't any plans yet to race the series. Trying to get him out to Adelanto for the first round.