KX Riders
Maintenance & Technical => KX500 Aluminum Frame Conversion (AFC) => Topic started by: German-need-help on October 09, 2013, 08:43:21 AM
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here we go...
(http://imageshack.us/a/img853/2756/5oj8.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img822/162/6b5f.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img818/9642/5o1p.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img39/9858/zv7.JPG)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img708/605/0pnk.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/34/bsu.JPG)
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Look great!
Keep those pics coming...
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thanks :wink:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img34/3756/cwai.JPG)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img191/3568/3gsk.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img580/368/5bye.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img46/9518/3foz.jpg)
(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2809/l2rq.jpg)
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I like your carb modification, nice job...
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more frame work.... we will go to the welder at the next days...
the edges of the square tube will be rounded after welding (like OEM Kawasaki)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img163/8514/5ymb.jpg)
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8517/s376.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img33/4484/tz3.JPG)
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3135/1h4a.jpg)
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Are the insides of the sq. tube 90 degree corners? If so, I did that to a CR500 and the rails cracked pretty quickly from it being too thin on the corners. I went to radiused sq .tube and have had good luck.
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I like your lower engine mounts...
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8517/s376.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img33/4484/tz3.JPG)
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Are the insides of the sq. tube 90 degree corners? If so, I did that to a CR500 and the rails cracked pretty quickly from it being too thin on the corners. I went to radiused sq .tube and have had good luck.
Yes there are also 90° corners inside.
The OEM Kawasaki Tubes are 2,5mm thick and we have used 3mm thick tubes.
There will be enough material for a small radius ;-)
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(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/603/pwbu.jpg)
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9940/d6j4.jpg)
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Hey Guys,
which radiators did you use for your build?
We will use the KX 500 radiators...
right side is fine! left side is very very close!
It would be nice if the left radiator will be about 1 cm shorter...
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I like your lower engine mounts...
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8517/s376.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img33/4484/tz3.JPG)
the man of steel is fallen in love to the al-frame... :-D
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Hey Guys,
which radiators did you use for your build?
We will use the KX 500 radiators...
right side is fine! left side is very very close!
It would be nice if the left radiator will be about 1 cm shorter...
i used also the kx500 radiators, because they fit perfekt to the 93 kx250 -steelframe, that i used.
why dont you try to lift up the left radmounts 1cm on the frame. would be much easier as cutting and welding on the radiators. you must only look for enough clearance, that the frontfork canŽt hit the radiators by turning full to left and right .
where are you in germany?. i live in the northeast in mecklenburg/vorpommern...
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the man of steel is fallen in love to the al-frame... :-D
His are so nice and clean and mine are so ugly :oops:
Oh well.... I'll copy it on my next build.... Once I finish my first build... :-)
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the man of steel is fallen in love to the al-frame... :-D
His are so nice and clean and mine are so ugly :oops:
Oh well.... I'll copy it on my next build.... Once I finish my first build... :-)
:-D so less time and so much projects... but you have always the chance to do it better with another good used frame that came in your shop...
i for my own still waiting that a riding buddy will blow the engine of his 2008 kxf250, because he takes no much care to the bike and it makes abnormal noises, but he still ride it.. and so i hope i can get it cheap with blown engine and maybe i take my kx360 engine for the af-build. the time will show it, what happens in the future :-)
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and so i hope i can get it cheap with blown engine and maybe i take my kx360 engine for the af-build. the time will show it, what happens in the future :-)
Oh yeah, that would make a cool bike....
I hate to wish your buddy ill will............ But..... KX360AF .... Nice 8-)
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Hey Guys,
which radiators did you use for your build?
We will use the KX 500 radiators...
right side is fine! left side is very very close!
It would be nice if the left radiator will be about 1 cm shorter...
i used also the kx500 radiators, because they fit perfekt to the 93 kx250 -steelframe, that i used.
why dont you try to lift up the left radmounts 1cm on the frame. would be much easier as cutting and welding on the radiators. you must only look for enough clearance, that the frontfork canŽt hit the radiators by turning full to left and right .
where are you in germany?. i live in the northeast in mecklenburg/vorpommern...
We are coming from near Frankfurt/Main.
All radiator mounts have to be new! The problem is less space between the Fork and the Y Frame section!
But it will work! If we do not short the radiator it will be fit a little bit diagonal...
The mounts on the picture are only for testing, we are looking for reuse the old mounts to be new welded at the right position!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img22/9757/y1n7.jpg)
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right side.... fits perfect!
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6617/0a6x.jpg)
left side...
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/382/aypt.jpg)
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and so i hope i can get it cheap with blown engine and maybe i take my kx360 engine for the af-build. the time will show it, what happens in the future :-)
Oh yeah, that would make a cool bike....
I hate to wish your buddy ill will............ But..... KX360AF .... Nice 8-)
thats the plan :-D iŽve said to him, if he dont look better to his bike he will destroy the engine. he smiled and said: this is a kawasaki!!... so all i have to do is waiting ... :evil: weŽll see what happens :lol:
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Hey Guys,
which radiators did you use for your build?
We will use the KX 500 radiators...
right side is fine! left side is very very close!
It would be nice if the left radiator will be about 1 cm shorter...
i used also the kx500 radiators, because they fit perfekt to the 93 kx250 -steelframe, that i used.
why dont you try to lift up the left radmounts 1cm on the frame. would be much easier as cutting and welding on the radiators. you must only look for enough clearance, that the frontfork canŽt hit the radiators by turning full to left and right .
where are you in germany?. i live in the northeast in mecklenburg/vorpommern...
We are coming from near Frankfurt/Main.
All radiator mounts have to be new! The problem is less space between the Fork and the Y Frame section!
But it will work! If we do not short the radiator it will be fit a little bit diagonal...
The mounts on the picture are only for testing, we are looking for reuse the old mounts to be new welded at the right position!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img22/9757/y1n7.jpg)
i think youre y-section is a little bit to high, but the fitment of your radiators looks good at the first view. dont forget the clearance also to the pipe... which pipe youŽre planning to use??
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YES next bike we will will make the "Y" a little bit lower!
I bought a new DEP Pipe and DEP silencer for CR 500.
We want to adapt these to the bike. Also i have the old KX pipe to reuse the connection to the engine!
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YES next bike we will will make the "Y" a little bit lower!
I bought a new DEP Pipe and DEP silencer for CR 500.
We want to adapt these to the bike. Also i have the old KX pipe to reuse the connection to the engine!
i use a modified cr500 stock pipe and pro circuit -silencer ... next update will be also a dep - pipe :-)
which parts do you still have from the 92 -donor-bike? shoot me a pm and you can write in german... :wink:
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@motopunk
check your messages
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Radiator mounts ready for welding!
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7867/tz0k.jpg)
...also we fixed the pipe yesterday! Pics will follow
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Looking good!
Keep the pics coming 8-)
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PIPE: Honda CR 500 /DEP
Silencer: HONDA CR 500 /DEP
Exhaust is fixed and point welded...
If we short out the pipe for 15 MM we could reuse the silencer mount.
We want to cut the pipe at the weld in the kickstart area and cut of 15 mm there.
We had also fixed the engine connection from the KX5.
The silencer should be shorted at the end.
sorry for bad english :roll:
(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/6149/pmbr.jpg)
(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/582/es9d.jpg)
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8194/9slc.jpg)
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6214/410b.JPG)
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/8760/49el.jpg)
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i love dep-pipes and thats what i planned also for my bike, but i run often out of money because my other 2 bike-projects and the races... sometimes it needs a little bit more time to get perfekt... :-D
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pics from the welded pipe...
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2063/gh5s.jpg)
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8341/zdo9.jpg)
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sweeet... cant wait to see the ready bike... :-D
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I want to see helmet cam video from a 20 ft high jump :evil:
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I want to see helmet cam video from a 20 ft high jump :evil:
you first... :evil: :evil: :lol:
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I would shatter :-P
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I would shatter :-P
you won't have to worry about that shoulder of yours coming apart! :-)
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I would shatter :-P
or you slide again on your back down the hill... :lol:
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I want to see helmet cam video from a 20 ft high jump :evil:
should be no problem :-)
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Coil mount! The sheet will be removed after welding...
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9950/n89c.JPG)
Silencer mount
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3230/zhgs.jpg)
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/3616/wun0.jpg)
Pipe mount prepared for welding
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7020/j4u9.jpg)
(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5294/6fa6.jpg)
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nice... and it looks like a first testride before the winter ... :-)
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Exhaust Mount is ready now...
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/5342/3l7p.jpg)
Grafix are fixed...
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2789/qprr.jpg)
looking forward to welding this week!!!
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That bike is looking sweet...
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Question about your pipe? It is very slim looking compared to my Service Honda CR500/KX500 pipe. The pipe's expansion chamber on my SH is so fat it almost hangs below the frame rails on my 2008 chassis. It's an FMF Gnarly. Did you choose your pipe for a particular tuning reason?
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That bike is looking sweet...
yes... i miss the wheels seat and kick start lever for the finished look... 8-) its time soon for first ride report... :wink:
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Question about your pipe? It is very slim looking compared to my Service Honda CR500/KX500 pipe. The pipe's expansion chamber on my SH is so fat it almost hangs below the frame rails on my 2008 chassis. It's an FMF Gnarly. Did you choose your pipe for a particular tuning reason?
No ... its very difficult to order the FMF Gnarly Pipe in Germany, so we took the DEP Pipe for the CR 500 and fixed it!
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It will be interesting to see the power you make with that pipe.
Any guess as to how it will effect the torque and HP?
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Mine Rino exhaust looks very much the same, it's a euro thing I guess :-D
And mine run great :wink:
Dutchie
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WELDING PICTURES!!!
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7295/t4r7.jpg)
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1156/6aw5.jpg)
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1133/oxtm.jpg)
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3767/ybl9.jpg)
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9270/er3l.jpg)
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST...
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8043/y7q9.jpg)
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Nice welding, it sure is looking good.
What are you doing in that last pic?
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If I had to guess I'd say facing down the water outlet???
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That was my guess as well but I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something...
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You are right we faced down 7 MM to get more space.
Maybe we won't have to use the "U" coolling hose! We will see later!
Today we will cut off all unnecessary Mounts from the frame and so on...
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Frame is finished and ready for 2 days of heat treating...
(http://imageshack.com/a/img834/726/3rjs.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img707/1825/6lzq.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img27/8529/cc0h.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img203/2660/8vaz.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img28/8221/duwg.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img826/835/h1wh.jpg)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img801/7732/chgu.jpg)
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looking great so far!
Are you going to make a engine jig to put in place when the frame is being heat treated? i thought about making one so the mounting points wouldnt alter any during the treatment process.
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looking great so far!
Are you going to make a engine jig to put in place when the frame is being heat treated? i thought about making one so the mounting points wouldnt alter any during the treatment process.
I don't think this will be necessary?
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ready for 2 days of heat treating...
That is the most overlooked part of these AF builds. Could you share any details on the process; temps, time, etc...
Sweet looking build
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That's because it's simply not necessary ....I know for a fact that the factory do not do this.I have done about 20 Hondas and haven't had a failure as yet
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i'd be surprised if the factory didnt HT after all the welding they do. when you start looking at the technical numbers of aluminum strength loss in the HAZ of the weld then its pretty obvious.
I think i'm going to do a engine jig on mine just to be safe. even if it only moves slightly that will cause me to have to bore the engine mount holes out bigger and then it will be sloppy. not worth it.
i was thinking on just making basic steel bar with tapped holes on either side the width of the engine in each mount area. then bracing them all together with some .250" steel bar.
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I met a guy when i was living in japan that worked in honda and he told me they didnt heat treat them...this was early 2000's...if its now changed i dont know
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then bracing them all together with some .250" steel bar.
That actually builds in stress points as AL & steel flex at different rates. I like the no weld mount/ frame mod idea. Im working it on a honda using thin .061 4130 plate & using the skid plate as carrier , hoping that I havent built in to much of a stress point. The process of anealing when AL is heated is some scary crap to bet your life on
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then bracing them all together with some .250" steel bar.
That actually builds in stress points as AL & steel flex at different rates. I like the no weld mount/ frame mod idea. Im working it on a honda using thin .061 4130 plate & using the skid plate as carrier , hoping that I havent built in to much of a stress point. The process of anealing when AL is heated is some scary crap to bet your life on
i kind of see what you mean about the different rates of expansion. but shouldnt the steel move less than aluminum due to the way higher melting point. i was thinking that brace would just hold the cradle in its original positioning during HT and not let it warp or anything.
Christini (the guys that do the AWD) bikes, i found who they use for their heat treating. and i was asking how under annealing they dont warp and distort. he said that a lot of it is how its mounted during the treatment process to minimize any distortion. he's the one that recommended bracing it with a removable brace before treating. he also said you could tack weld some alum braces (just a few rods at random spots) and then just grind off after treating.
ive never heard a clear answer as well on what the factory does. I would be surprised if they didn't HT. it seems like the frames are engineered for aluminum to be certain thickness at certain points for flex and rigidity. well, take off 30% of the strength at those areas now due to being heated when welded. seems like they are more likely speced using 100% strength material throughout. and all annealing does is get it back to that point after its been altered.
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Sorry I'm an idiot & read it wrong. I understood bolt in cradle / steel plate reinforcement . Dur
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That's because it's simply not necessary ....I know for a fact that the factory do not do this.I have done about 20 Hondas and haven't had a failure as yet
Bike is finished! without heat treating!!!
In Germany all tracks are closed yet, because the winters are cold and full of snow.
There will be enough time for the aluminum to stress out alone, without a heat treating furnace.
In 3 month (february/march) we will check up the strongness of the frame of jumping some big jumps. :roll:
The 2 honda CR 500 AF builds my kollege has done before, also never had seen a heat treat furnace and were finished also before the winter :-)
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(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad303/mruppert1/DSC02995_zpsd4645f9c.jpg)
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad303/mruppert1/20131119_213131_zpsed11a959.jpg)
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad303/mruppert1/20131119_212835_zpscece8536.jpg)
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad303/mruppert1/20131119_213451_zps3c26fd7a.jpg)
(http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad303/mruppert1/20131122_191142_zps692910a9.jpg)
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Nice!