MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE, PART 2 - FINAL ASSEMBLY

[Motorrad]

Pull the head back off, pull the studs back out. Now when installing the studs use a quality thread sealant. (On the side that goes into cyl)
Put the head back on and I bet your problem goes away.

Bob W

That wont help you...  No thread sealant needed.

Will only mask the problem..

The K5 has Blind Holes...



Will answer better when not on my phone...

[delphipro5]

This head was gone over by "larry the compression release guy" himself and was in great shape before I sent it to him... The cylinder went to millennium coatings to be replated.... And then the whole thing was rebuilt by a reputable .... engine builder in my area... new oem gasket... I really think it's just the top engine mount.. I will loosen it and retighten the head nuts to correct tourqe and then retighten the top engine mount.... I really hope that solves the problem... It would blow to have to pull the engine apart again right now... 3 of the 4 that are leaking are the ones directly around that engine mount.

[Polar-Bus]

First off, I personally would be concerned. AF should NOT be leaking past the head studs. This "usually" is a tell tale sign of a warped head.  If the AF is leaking outside the head, it could be potentially leaking into the cylinder, and down into your crankcase as well.  Did this engine run good before the major overhaul ?

When I did my complete top end back in 2008, my engine was in great shape, really didn't even need a top end in hindsight, but after a good cleaning and all fresh OEM gaskets and parts, my engine went together perfect, and still runs perfect today.

[Friar-Tuck]

Good Morning Delphi,
  Something the guys who have built engines with bigger H.P. numbers all recommend was to lap the head and the cyl.
and chamfer (or counter sink) the cyl. head studs.   

 As you torque down the head, the studs tend to pull a small ridge up from  around  the stud itself where it exits the cyl.
And I have had to learn the hard way  over-torquing the bolts will cause the head to leak.

 I'm sure its something simple.
       Tuck\o/



 

[Polar-Bus]

Good Morning Delphi,
  Something the guys who have built engines with bigger H.P. numbers all recommend was to lap the head and the cyl.
and chamfer (or counter sink) the cyl. head studs.   

 As you torque down the head, the studs tend to pull a small ridge up from  around  the stud itself where it exits the cyl.
And I have had to learn the hard way  over-torquing the bolts will cause the head to leak.

 I'm sure its something simple.
       Tuck\o/



 

If this were true, I would think the af would then tend to leak from between the head gasket ? But hey, a simple lesser head "re-torque" wont cost a dime ! I'd be very curious if this is the issue...

[Motorrad]

perhapse your head and Jug were warped... together....   now your head is TRUE and straight.. and your Jug isnt..   

As far as I know... no plater checks the gasket surfaces for warpage.. so just because you sent it to them.. doesnt mean anything.. Its your job to check that stuff.

also i like to torque the head like the kips end of the head wasnt there... just torque it like a normal head... .then torque the kips portion last...

a cut and paste from my motor build..   head was TRUE... 

Checked the fit of the head to barrel... (while waiting for crank to get cold in the freezer, and sockets to get hot in the oven)





Which resulted in
Lapping the head to the barrel..


And put the crank in the cases... (Hoooray, bottom end is DONE).

[Motorrad]

also forgot to add... Im not a fan of the OEM Fiber gaskets..   

[DoldGuy]

perhapse your head and Jug were warped... together....   now your head is TRUE and straight.. and your Jug isnt..   

As far as I know... no plater checks the gasket surfaces for warpage.. so just because you sent it to them.. doesnt mean anything.. Its your job to check that stuff.

also i like to torque the head like the kips end of the head wasnt there... just torque it like a normal head... .then torque the kips portion last...

a cut and paste from my motor build..   head was TRUE... 

Checked the fit of the head to barrel... (while waiting for crank to get cold in the freezer, and sockets to get hot in the oven)





Which resulted in
Lapping the head to the barrel..


And put the crank in the cases... (Hoooray, bottom end is DONE).

+1, Check the cylinder & the Head. I am sure you will find that at least one is not flat.
Just my $.02

DoldGuy

[delphipro5]

It would have been my job to check if I didn't have some one else rebuild the engine! I thought he might have known a little bit about this being an engine guy. I retourqed the head nuts with the engine mounts loose and I went up to 22 ft-lbs. and they did not budge. so i think he may have overtightened them and caused it to leak! we shall see if what i did today helps. I WILL NEVER AGAIN LET ANYONE TOUCH ANY OF MY STUFF.... I guess I have finally graduated to doing it all myself if I am to take on anything like this again. Should have known that trying to save myself time I would have cost myself time. Not my first rodeo but I acted like it was and now it's biting me in the ass!

[Friar-Tuck]

    Polar, I'm sorry I don't understand what difference is if your using a steel frame or an aluminum frame.

      I have no formal training, and don't want to spread bad info,  so I am wide open to finding out the truth.

 The head gets torqued to the cyl and then the head stay is tightened.  Are you saying the head stay is pulling the head away from the cyl. and causing the leak due to frame flex?    It seems hard to believe, but hey stranger things have happened... 
  And if this is the case, what is the corrective action?
  Thanks for your patients, I like I said I don't want to spread bad dope.


  Ohh Dear.... What the heck,  No more posting until AFTER my meds kick in!

  Thank you again MoRad for the Photo layout, a pic is worth a thousand words!!
   Tuck\o/

[DoldGuy]

 Polar, I'm sorry I don't understand what difference is if your using a steel frame or an aluminum frame.

      I have no formal training, and don't want to spread bad info,  so I am wide open to finding out the truth.

 The head gets torqued to the cyl and then the head stay is tightened.  Are you saying the head stay is pulling the head away from the cyl. and causing the leak due to frame flex?    It seems hard to believe, but hey stranger things have happened... 
  And if this is the case, what is the corrective action?
  Thanks for your patients, I like I said I don't want to spread bad dope.

  Thank you again MoRad for the Photo layout, a pic is worth a thousand words!!
   Tuck\o/

Tuck, I think Polar Bus was saying Antifreeze with the AF used as short.
DoldGuy

[delphipro5]

Yeah, I get flustered easy. Sorry to all that have to listen to me bitch.

 It looks to me to be solved. I the loosened the engine mounts, and retourqed stud the nuts, then retightened the engine mounts bottom to top. Have not noticed it leak yet since. I only lost about 9ml of fluid from what I can tell.
I will see what it looks like when I get back to the shop tomorrow morning.

 Was going to fire it up this afternoon, but the weather is SOOO humid up here right now!   I would rather it be a crisp, sunny, 75deg. day for initial; break-in. But thats like a needle in a haystack this year! Weather has sucked up here for the last 2 months! And I got on the oil conundrum again as far as break-in goes. Then finally settled on using  VP's S.E.F. 94 fuel mixed 40:1 with Golden Spectro semi-synthetic oil. Have used it my whole life and always will. As far as break-in with it, it does have a true petrolieum fraction to it. I don't think It will cause trouble with the rings not seating. After going over it a 1000 times, this was the best mix I can come up with.(for my break-in)

Still. will be doing most of my engine work myself from now on.
The battle continues................

[Polar-Bus]

Yeah, I get flustered easy. Sorry to all that have to listen to me bitch.

 It looks to me to be solved. I the loosened the engine mounts, and retourqed stud the nuts, then retightened the engine mounts bottom to top. Have not noticed it leak yet since. I only lost about 9ml of fluid from what I can tell.
I will see what it looks like when I get back to the shop tomorrow morning.

 Was going to fire it up this afternoon, but the weather is SOOO humid up here right now!   I would rather it be a crisp, sunny, 75deg. day for initial; break-in. But thats like a needle in a haystack this year! Weather has sucked up here for the last 2 months! And I got on the oil conundrum again as far as break-in goes. Then finally settled on using  VP's S.E.F. 94 fuel mixed 40:1 with Golden Spectro semi-synthetic oil. Have used it my whole life and always will. As far as break-in with it, it does have a true petrolieum fraction to it. I don't think It will cause trouble with the rings not seating. After going over it a 1000 times, this was the best mix I can come up with.(for my break-in)

Still. will be doing most of my engine work myself from now on.
The battle continues................

Well this is a good initial observation (no leaks) but bear in mind, once the engine is up to operating temps your cooling system builds approx 16 psi of pressure. If there is still an issue, this is when you will see it. If you see no external leaks hot, thats even better. Keep an eye on your AF ( this abbr means ANTI-FREEZE, not ALUMINUM FRAME      )    level , if AF is disappearing pull your plug and smell it if it smells sweet like AF you still are leaking AF past the head gasket internally.

[delphipro5]

I did a three heat cycle break-in today, then ran it for about 8 min. with a few good revs at the end then shut her down. 

This is what I will use for the break-in and first few tanks of fuel. Mixed at first to 40-42:1 and working up to 46-48:1

Then move on to running C-10 mixed with G.S. oil 48-50:1

From what I can tell the weeping at the studs is minimal to none now.
This was after it was hot the 2nd cycle.

 I have lost more An. fr. from the drain tube than anywhere else? I think it may have been a little overfull to begin with, but I have not had to add any yet. Runs good, I don't smell any an. fr. burning in the exaust smoke so I think all is good for now.
 
This thing is heating up quick! and gets hot! I have it just sitting still which does not help to cool the rads. And break-in causes extra heat so maybe that is why it is spitting coolant from the overflow a bit.

And it still is a vibrating beast from what I can tell so far... Just sitting on it for the last 8 min. run my hands and ass were numb! It's the kind of vibe that shakes nuts and bolts loose and liquifies your forearms. NO real change from before... maybe this will go away when riding at operating RPMS???

Oh well, we shall see... when I take it for it's first ride on saturday.

I have a video of the break in but I still cant get it on my comp. not working for some reason?

All in all it feels and sounds VERY Strong!

[Marco810]

its spitting af out the overflow because your getting blow by going through the gasket and into the water jacket causing excessive pressure in your cooling system. willing to bet its got af in the combustion chamber