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Author Topic: Siezed?  (Read 19116 times)

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Offline 3Razors

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2011, 04:35:26 PM »
You'd be suprised how much abuse a lower end can take.  I wouldn't split the cases just yet. If it were me I get some gas and fill it up and tip the bike on its side to flush out the particles followed with some compressed air, keep repeating the process again and again till clean.  Then put a small amount of 2 stroke oil on the main/rod bearings and rotate to see if everything is smooth.  Grab the flywheel and try up/down movement, there shouldn't be any. If everything is in check, throw a new topend on there and ride.  I know the local mechanic and others will tell you otherwise as he has to err on the safe side and puts more $$ in their pocket.  I know this because we do the same at shop I work for.  But I will also tell them the option above, we have had dozens of motors that have run with no issues season after season with just the flush and clean method.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 04:38:09 PM by 3Razors »
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Motorrad

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2011, 06:25:36 PM »
Quote from: 3Razors on January 23, 2011, 04:35:26 PM
You'd be suprised how much abuse a lower end can take.  I wouldn't split the cases just yet. If it were me I get some gas and fill it up and tip the bike on its side to flush out the particles followed with some compressed air, keep repeating the process again and again till clean.  Then put a small amount of 2 stroke oil on the main/rod bearings and rotate to see if everything is smooth.  Grab the flywheel and try up/down movement, there shouldn't be any. If everything is in check, throw a new topend on there and ride.  I know the local mechanic and others will tell you otherwise as he has to err on the safe side and puts more $$ in their pocket.  I know this because we do the same at shop I work for.  But I will also tell them the option above, we have had dozens of motors that have run with no issues season after season with just the flush and clean method.

Would you like to see a picture of the main bearings I just took out of my motor?  It had particles flow through it for exactly 30 Yards... as I coasted into camp.   everything felt fine when rotating the motor by hand... But the leverage you have on everything, you will never feel a bad main untill its VERY BAD... so I tore it down, took out mains and guess what..they were crunchy... and yes the races had damage..

And as stated before... the pictures look like MAJOR DIRT INGESTION..  If as much dirt as it looks like whent through her...   all bearings, crank pin's, piston, plate, etc are in order...  Just my .02


 "I was able to put it in first gear and let off the clutch and the bike would just sit there like it was in neutral."

This tells me you also have issues elseware...  start checking clutch plates/hub..
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 06:34:34 PM by Motorrad »
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Offline sandblaster

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2011, 06:36:29 PM »
I agree with you Motorrad.
I have seen that exact same scenario too many times in the past as well as the consequences of trying to save a few bucks.
I wouldn't risk it based on what I saw.
Then again, what do I know....
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The four stroke engine: That's one stroke for producing power and three for wearing the engine out.

Motorrad

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2011, 06:38:27 PM »
Quote from: sandblaster on January 23, 2011, 06:36:29 PM
Then again, what do I know....

about as much as I do..
I like beer, women, and Green motorcycles.
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Offline sandblaster

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2011, 06:43:41 PM »
Don't limit yourself, I like 4 things..... :wink:
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 06:48:18 PM by sandblaster »
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The four stroke engine: That's one stroke for producing power and three for wearing the engine out.

Offline 3Razors

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2011, 06:50:42 PM »
Mottorad, I'm not saying its an absolution for everyone.  There are many variables involved with how many hours were on the motor prior, oil mixture, ect before the damage took place.  Every situation is different and I take that into effect whether we decide to go that route or not.  Same thing as I have seem people insist on a new lower end when the topend grenades and come to find out when we pull the thing apart all the lower end components are like new.

And if your going to split the cases you better be mechanically sound or take it to someone who knows what they are doing as I have seen far too many newbies venture there and end up making things worse with they rebuild it.
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Offline cbxracer30

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2011, 06:59:54 AM »
My buddies polaris snowmobile implodded twice like that before he reliezed he had torn intake boots on the bottom side and it was sucking air.I would say if you have the money rebuild the bottom end - thats the safe play, and if you were from PA I would say bring it over I can help, in less than a hour we could that out and a few beers out.CBX     Oh yea have to do it while the wifes at work she seeing me rebuild motors on the island in the kitchen [zero degrees outside not gonna heat the garage just for that] :-D
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Offline don46

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2011, 07:59:45 AM »
look very carefully at your cases, I've seen them blown not as bad as yours and crack the cases, a peice of piston gets in between the crank and cases and causes it to crack. as for the debate, should you split it or not, keep in mind this old saying "you can pay me now or later" and you will pay maybe even destroying your new piston.

Also, if the clutch was slipping that bad that it wouldn't go, that could have been the partial cause of your failure, a slipping clutch generates a tremendous amount of heat, coupled with a leaking water pump seal (=no coolant). yah upon reflection you more than likely caused this destruction yourself, why in the world would you not fix a failed water pump seal? water in the bearings is never a good deal.

At any rate I hope you get by with a minimal amount of failed parts.

Good luck
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Offline doctord

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2011, 09:40:16 AM »
I suggest you pop the cases and take a look.
I bought a KDX220 basket case that had snapped the piston skirt. With all the pieces out, the crank turned free. I was tempted to just replace the piston but resisted that urge. When I took it apart, there was a whole in the case below the crank. The crank bearings still felt like new, but I replaced them anyway after I repaired the case. Just sayin'.
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Offline littlewing78

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2011, 02:12:02 PM »
You guys all know way more than I do about this.  I only got this bike 6 months ago and it is my first one.  The guy I bought it from had been running it without an air filter at all.  I am going to open up the case because I know there are chunks of piston inside there.  I just don't have the tool to remove the magneto.
I do think most of the damage was caused by me.  Just glad I got the bike as cheap as I did. 
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Offline Friar-Tuck

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2011, 10:17:58 PM »
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Offline Goat

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2011, 05:04:23 AM »
Quote from: littlewing78 on January 24, 2011, 02:12:02 PM
You guys all know way more than I do about this.  I only got this bike 6 months ago and it is my first one.  The guy I bought it from had been running it without an air filter at all.  I am going to open up the case because I know there are chunks of piston inside there.  I just don't have the tool to remove the magneto.
I do think most of the damage was caused by me.  Just glad I got the bike as cheap as I did. 

Why would you do something that stupid? It's called a "DIRT" bike for a reason.

We are all here to help however we can. I'm in mid Michigan willing to help if you're nearby.
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Quote from: Danger4u2 on June 17, 2010, 01:36:16 AM
It's hard to keep a drivers license riding a 2 stroke dirt bike on the street.  If you drive within the law they are VERY boring.

Offline littlewing78

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2011, 01:21:02 PM »
Thanks for all your help.  I am in Utah.  Time to start doing some side work so I can afford to fix this thing now.
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Offline littlewing78

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2011, 03:57:04 PM »
How much of a difference do the power valves make?  Started cleaning things up and found that they were stuck closed.  They had so much gunk built up on them they would not move.  I did manage to get everything out and cleaned up.  Now everything moves freely.
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Offline Goat

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Re: Siezed?
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2011, 04:04:35 PM »
If they were blocked off by gunk then compression should have been better. They are set up from the factory to let some compression blow by for easier starting. There is a bolt mod you can do to fix that. I'll see if I can find the post for that small mod if you like.
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Quote from: Danger4u2 on June 17, 2010, 01:36:16 AM
It's hard to keep a drivers license riding a 2 stroke dirt bike on the street.  If you drive within the law they are VERY boring.
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