Author Topic: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500  (Read 32830 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline flyingfitz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2010, 03:31:12 PM »
I have the VForce 2, no spacer and mine runs great on or off the trail. Plenty of bottom end and smooth transition.  I would try the VForce mod and see if you need the spacer before you buy it.

I also woods ride the stock pwk 39.  Jetted right it is very consistent and runs clean all the way through. Very predictable with stock throttle cam.  No plug fouling, even with the cheapest b8es plugs.  93 pump gas, Bel Ray H1R, no ping.

The compression release is the bomb. I dont have the head cut mod.  Starts easily 1st or second kick. 

I think the window piston is a worthwhile mod.  I also think having the crank trued by someone who has the equipment and experience will make a big difference.  My bike runs very smooth.  No disappearing bolts. No broken pipe mounts. No tingling fingers, even with 7/8 bars.

You might consider putting your money into the core and then modify the periphials (sp?)  if you need more.  You will save bucks for all the fuel these things burn! My 2 cents. 

Fitz

Offline flyingfitz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2010, 03:55:18 PM »
I would also try the stock flywheel before you add a weight.

Fitz

Offline delphipro5

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2010, 01:25:29 PM »
SO as I have said, 91 oct. fuel is all that is available from the pumps in my area so I do not wan't to mod this engine for race gas.
Where can you get race gas? like the belray H1R mentioned? 91 is a little low, any suggestions on how I can spice it up a little?
What about octane boost like lucas oil has for cars?
Just got my v-force2 kit today. When I put this back together I will try without the spacer first.
I have ridden it all last season with the stock flywheel, interested to see how it feels with a weight.
Keeping the stock 39 PWK, but I might have it modded slightly/jetted correctly.
NEED TO FIND: Local shop that can do the Bottom end/ crank balance. ( need to send out cylinder for plateing too)
I keep my post on the engine updated so you may see the list grow and change.

ALSO, What makes this bikes suspension so archaich? it's got a linkage shock(some KTM's still don't)?
and are the forks really that much different to now?(aside from the sff models)
WHY can't you just buy a brand new shock and forks 2010 tech, in the same sizes as the stocks and replace them?(trust me I know the cost involved with doing something like that!), BUT I have not even seen it as an option, i'm just saying......... I mean, that is basically the idea behind the AF and SF mod's is to update the erginomics and suspension but keep the power.
I'm just asking what makes this suspension so outdated?

No I am not going magura anymore.

let's see anything else.-nope
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 08:58:16 AM by delphipro5 »

Offline delphipro5

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2010, 02:05:50 PM »
SO.... Anyone want to fill me in on where I should have the bottom end work, crank balancing, and cylinder plateing done?? Need a good shop to do these things. I should have the engine out soon, any takers??

Offline snoopjonnyjon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2010, 01:31:16 AM »
You can buy VP fuel from most race shops, but it is expensive. Last year when I was burning VP I frequently burned through $100 or more in a day of riding. This year I switched to just running 100LL av gas. I have no idea how the availability would be in your area, but if you have a pilot buddy, it might be an option.

Here is an octane booster that actually sounds very promising:
http://torcoracefuel.net/pro-accelerator.html
Most of the typical service station octane boosts don't do much. I've never tried the Torco Accelerator but have read some independent reviews that say it really does work. Just don't mix it with the fuel ahead of time. It has an extremely short life when mixed. Only mix up what you will burn that day. Apparently after as little as 24hrs, the higher octane component has evaporated out and you are back to the same octane you started with.

Belray H1R is a two stroke oil, not a fuel. It will be available from every motorcycle shop.

And just in case you didn't come across it in your searches, here is my rebuild from last winter. I did a lot of the things you are looking to do.

I didn't do anything to the suspension other than new fluid and fork seals. I didn't consider myself to ride at a high enough level really benefit from big suspension mods. I thought it would just be wasted on me with my ability. But then I bought a Gasgas with Ohlins at both ends, and wow... I can't believe how plush and nice handling that bike is. If I had money to burn, I would try to get a set of Ohlins forks and shock for my KX.
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,7066.0.html

Offline delphipro5

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 09:07:24 AM »
You can buy VP fuel from most race shops, but it is expensive. Last year when I was burning VP I frequently burned through $100 or more in a day of riding. This year I switched to just running 100LL av gas. I have no idea how the availability would be in your area, but if you have a pilot buddy, it might be an option.

Here is an octane booster that actually sounds very promising:
http://torcoracefuel.net/pro-accelerator.html
Most of the typical service station octane boosts don't do much. I've never tried the Torco Accelerator but have read some independent reviews that say it really does work. Just don't mix it with the fuel ahead of time. It has an extremely short life when mixed. Only mix up what you will burn that day. Apparently after as little as 24hrs, the higher octane component has evaporated out and you are back to the same octane you started with.

Belray H1R is a two stroke oil, not a fuel. It will be available from every motorcycle shop.

And just in case you didn't come across it in your searches, here is my rebuild from last winter. I did a lot of the things you are looking to do.

I didn't do anything to the suspension other than new fluid and fork seals. I didn't consider myself to ride at a high enough level really benefit from big suspension mods. I thought it would just be wasted on me with my ability. But then I bought a Gasgas with Ohlins at both ends, and wow... I can't believe how plush and nice handling that bike is. If I had money to burn, I would try to get a set of Ohlins forks and shock for my KX.
http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,7066.0.html

O.K. Egg on me, I thought he was talking about a mix of pump gas(93) and some type of racing fuel(belray h1r)! I have never used belray anything, have ran golden spectro my entire life and never had a problem. I just think 91 is too low and I want to find a mix I could use.
As far as the susp. mods, once you have sat on a bike properly set up for you with top line susp. components there is NO going back!

« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 09:11:30 AM by delphipro5 »

Offline delphipro5

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2010, 01:40:38 PM »
What is 100LL exactly? I know it is aviation fuel, but what does 100LL mean? how would I run it, just regular mix 32-1? could I cut pump gas with it? I have a lot of fairly small airports around me, maybe I could get it there somehow.

Offline don46

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,140
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2010, 03:16:39 PM »
ALSO, What makes this bikes suspension so archaich? it's got a linkage shock(some KTM's still don't)?
and are the forks really that much different to now?(aside from the sff models)
WHY can't you just buy a brand new shock and forks 2010 tech, in the same sizes as the stocks and replace them?(trust me I know the cost involved with doing something like that!), BUT I have not even seen it as an option, i'm just saying......... I mean, that is basically the idea behind the AF and SF mod's is to update the erginomics and suspension but keep the power.
I'm just asking what makes this suspension so outdated?

No I am not going magura anymore.

let's see anything else.-nope

changes are made to improve action on both the forks and shock, and I'm sure there are many that will debate this issue and thats fine. You could buy some Ohlins stuff, but that would be very pricey. as an alternative you could use a newer shock, however the newer shock is longer than the stocker so you could swap the clevis or mod the newer shock clevis, I've done it both ways and they work equally well. the forks are another story, you can buy newer forks with the triples and swap them easy enough, however the neck on lets say a newer 450 is at a different angle and so if you were to use them, your rake would be greater, the way around this is to have a set of triples made for the 500 with the larger tube size, I think sombody looked into this and it was about $900, so yeah you can do it the question is at what cost.
Live today, for tomorrow may never come

Offline alward25

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,349
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2010, 06:04:44 PM »
What is 100LL exactly? I know it is aviation fuel, but what does 100LL mean? how would I run it, just regular mix 32-1? could I cut pump gas with it? I have a lot of fairly small airports around me, maybe I could get it there somehow.
100 octane low lead.  It also keeps longer than pump gas since it does not have any ethynol in it. You could cut it, I would run it straight.
"Let there be light"

Offline flyingfitz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2010, 05:51:27 AM »
Alward,

Do you run 100LL?  If so, what oil in what mixture? I am assuming that that the additives dont harm the fuel system??

Fitz

Offline snoopjonnyjon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2010, 06:06:38 AM »
I run 100LL mixed 50:1 with Belray MC1. So far, no issues. I think I went through about 50 gallons this year.

Motorrad

  • Guest
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2010, 06:09:32 AM »
I'm on 100LL also.

Do your research.  There are no additives in it from the refinery. It's up to the airport to add anything they feel the need to (deice additives).  Here In southern California.  The airport doesn't add them. N you can ask

I run h1r at 40:1. 

Watch it though because of it's low specific gravity it will change your jetting..
AND SOME OILS WILL SEPPARATE IN IT. Castor 927 comes to mind

100ll also ends up being approximate 106 oct to car bike standard of testing. Also has about halfthe lead as say vp C12
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 06:12:52 AM by Motorrad »

Offline flyingfitz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2010, 03:31:16 AM »
As long as h1r will not seperate thats all I need to know.  I've ofter wondered why more guys dont use this option if it is viable??

Thanks

Fitz

Offline snoopjonnyjon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2010, 05:10:12 AM »
I had asked the question earlier on a different forum and it spun out of control. I've copied and pasted a few of the replies from a guy that worked in a fuel refinery, and also races boats.

It also uses totally different parameters for determing the octane. If Avgas was tested under the same conditions as "mogas"or "autogas", it wouldn't have the octane rating it does. The test procedure is close to the MON test for autogas but with a much lower intake temperature. It DOES NOT have the same octane rating as 100 octane race gas. And it has a much lower REID VAPOR rating. Also, the whole "dry" thing is completely misunderstood. The "dry" in Avgas means it is certified to contain much less water, which will freeze. Any glycol in the fuel is to inhibit any water it does contain from freezing. And there isn't much glycol in it.

And Avgas has a Specific Gravity of about 6.05, compared to say VPs 110 which is 7.30. This means you should be jetting up with Avgas, and be using more. And the "octane rating" of avgas goes up as the mixture gets richer. All gas does, but Avgas even more so, because of the blend. I've got friends with 13:1 980hp big block ford running on 100LL, just by jetting a little richer than he does with Trick 104.

Some people mix avgas 4:1 with pump gas to "stabilize" for lower altitudes. The avgas is harder to vaporize than mogas. The vaporization thing is one of the issues with the supplemental type certificaion, the certification that allows mogas to be used in an aircraft. The fuel lines must be insulated and routed away from any heat source and cooled by outside air etc. or the mogas can flash off and cause a vapor lock. Not a good thing at 10,000 ft So by adding pump gas to the avgas, you are adding fuel with a high enough vapor pressure to flash easier and allows for an easier ignition. It isn't really neccessary, specially if you run mag, because Avgas is still much easier to light than methanol. And remember, airplanes still have to start and make good power at lower altitudes. But the addition of mogas will make the process easier. But will also lower the knock index down slightly. So go lightly.

There is nothing in the compounds that doesn't or didn't exist in mogas in the 60's. Just in different amounts. So maybe its the toluene. As far as comparing av with mogas in evaporation, there are more than a couple of race gas blends that will flat out run it in that department. And they aren't harder on fuels lines than any other fuel. Ask any fuel line supplier which they would rather deal with, Avgas or todays pump, and every last one will tell you, they would rather deal with avgas. There are in fact compounds in todays gas that is not in avgas, and was not in mogas 40 years ago. And these compounds are wrecking havoc with fuel lines in older cars and non-teflon hoses. Even the synthetic rubber stuff. So if its because it evaporates, I can see it. Any fuel will do that to rubber lines. Other wise, there is nothing mysterious in the stuff. Same stuff, just a different blend.

You may not be old enough, but gas in the 60's was cold as hell on your hands, not quite like alky, but cold just the same. Evaporation. Big time. And it would raise a welt on your skin is no time, and burn like hell. You could light it off in a 12 to 1 427 with nothing more than a points and condenser battery ignition.

There is nothing unique about the stuff that makes up Avgas


But while we are on the subject of evaporation, that is the major bitch with the tree huggers. And why they are pushing for an alternative fuel for 100LL. Less than 1% of gas is avgas, yet it is responible, so they say, for 25% of all unburned hydrocarbons released thru evaporation. Wait till they take another look at boats. Sealed fuel tanks and vapor recovery systems will right after the catalytic converters that are already here.


Offline flyingfitz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: MONUMENT TO THE 2-STROKE 2000 KX500
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2010, 05:09:54 PM »
I live in the midwest and all of our auto gas from the pump is 10% ethanol.  This past year odd things happened and I wondered if it was due to a change in what was in the auto gas. 

The guy who winterized my boat last year said to drain the tank instead of filling it up and putting stabil in it like years past.  He said that the fuel was causing problem in marine applications.

The fuel pickup hoses in both my weedeaters and my leaf blower broke down and desintegrated. 

The fuel system in my fathers golf cart did the same thing.

In fear for the fuel system in my 50cc RC Airplane, I strongly considered using 100LL.

Has anyone else had issues like those listed above?  Or is it a coincidence that all three of my yard tools just imploded at the same time??

Fitz