Clutch Issues *PLEASE HELP*

[tha.steev.oh]

I have a race in less than a week and I'm summoning all the KX500 gurus on the site - hoping someone could lend me some pointers.

Here's the situation:
- I'm feeling a slipping (not direct engagement) when I'm shifting gears. The revs hang up for a second before it comes down and starts driving. I do my own wrenching but I've never had to change a clutch before and I'm not looking forward to pulling the entire side of my bike open just to change plates, springs, etc. What a poorly conceived design! 

- I bought this bike last fall and it was in prestine shape with original sprockets, tires, and not a mark on the frame so although I don't know the history, I'm assuming it was babied (original clutch I'm sure). It's a 2001 K5 and is set up for primarily supermoto. I have a 14oz Steahly flywheel weight so there's actually little clutch abuse since I never have to slip the clutch to grab revs. The clutch pull has always been quite stiff but I don't have another K5 to compare it to so assumed it was normal. I have 15/40 gearing. I run ATF Type-F and change it after every weekend of riding.
- What do I do? I need to order parts asap so should I just bite the bullet and buy the whole clutch kit and gasket or do you think something else could be the issue?

Any help would be soooo appreciated 
steev-oh

[kaw rider]

another transmission problem with atf oil in it. you will have to pull the cover to find out. maybe a notched clutch basket , broken clutch springs , worn plates, burnt up plates

[Friar-Tuck]

Hey Steve,
  If you can afford to buy the clutch kit and have it on stand by it surely wouldn't hurt.  The parts are consumable so they will have to be changed at some point.   However Once  the clutch starts slipping it usually goes down hill quick.
  I think you'll find once you get the bike opened up it's not really that big of a deal.   
Is it really worth getting to the track and hoping the bike will make one more moto?
  My vote is "an ounce of prevention"... I wouldn't meet the guys out at the trail head without knowing the bike was 100%.

 Look through your service manual and get what you need. 
   The only thing you really have to watch is not trying to hold the basket with anything other than the vice grip looking jobbers, and re-installing the clutch springs and retaining bolts.  Be careful re-installing those suckers... check the torque specs and use them.. don't attempt to "snug up" the bolts they will break and you will be mad.
  I aplologize for not adding piccy's and all I got to get to work... be back in a few days...Look for a vid for some reference.
  Tuck\o/

[madmick]

steev.oh..it might sound silly but have you got a 2/3mm gap between your clutch perch and clutch lever,sounds like it might be engaging and no slack in your cable to allow it to fully disengage when released will cause similar probs..?..good luck..if not and you take your plates out make sure you keep them in the same order they came out to go back in..

[Danger4u2]

steev.oh..it might sound silly but have you got a 2/3mm gap between your clutch perch and clutch lever,sounds like it might be engaging and no slack in your cable to allow it to fully disengage when released will cause similar probs..?..good luck..if not and you take your plates out make sure you keep them in the same order they came out to go back in..

I think when you say "no slack in your cable to allow it to fully disengage when released will cause similar probs..?..".  Your talking about the cable disengaging.  It just sounded a little odd because when you release the clutch handle the clutch will engage.
Just wanted to make sure everyone knows what your saying.  You are correct if the cable has no play the clutch will not fully engage.There should be enough slack to slip a nickel between the perch and lever.
Here's a picture of the clutch tool.  When you go back together make sure you get the ratchet spring in the little slot.  I missed that and had to pull it all apart to correct it. You shouldn't have to mess with that, just thought I would point that out. You can see the little dent the spring put in the plastic as I tried to bolt up the side case.

[tha.steev.oh]

My clutch cable play is to spec - I had hoped this was all that was going on.
I'm gonna buy the clutch kit today since like you said Tuck I will need to replace them sooner or later anyways. Can't afford to pay to go race and bring a limping clutch along. I would hate to bring a knife to a gunfight.

Is that clutch holder necessary to pull the top plate off and change the plates and springs? Or is that for full basket removal? If so is there a way to hold it and not damage anything without that special tool?

You guys are awesome! I appreciate the lightning-fast reponses!

steev.oh

[madmick]

steev oh wait until you dismantle the cover before you fork out your hard earned as it could be some bolts have loosened up and just need tightening or maybe even marks on your basket causing your plates to stick in the grooves and not move freely,the tool shown clutch holding tool is about 40-50 bucks down here and you will be needing that to hold your basket while you tension and re-tension the nut when putting the basket back on,i made my own i got 2 pieces of steel that fit fairly snug in the grooves and then welded them together with 1 longer piece that acts as your handle so it will look like the letter F,or a material strap spanner will hold it and not damage the surface as well(bush method)from the bush mechanic..

[Danger4u2]

Here's the kind of strap madmick's talking about.  You can find them for 5 bucks.
Lisle LIS63500  This one opens to 6 inches.

[Friar-Tuck]

 Or if you have acsess to a welder I have seen guys take three or so plates weld them together and add a handle.
   You won't have to remove the basket if you just want to replace the fibers and or plates.   If the Basket is grooved I guess you could file the grooves out while in the bike,-- however those filings will inevitably get everywhere..
  There are a few "Other" or "Bush" methods one could use.. I mean sometimes you have to do, what you have to do..
 Please understand I'm not attempting to sound  self righteous...I have way too many embarrassing fixes and too much breakage, I'm not very proud of that......
  I just hesitate telling someone with maybe not as much time spinning wrenches and have the inevitable happen, that wouldn't look good for the site or the poor bloke with the broken parts..

I know that fancy pair of vice grips isn't cheap, however you will be able to use them on plenty of other bikes..(if that helps justify the cost)
  I broke the basket on my XR600 the first time tearing down the engine,  that cost me about $100.00,   and then when I finally got the new basket, 
I broke two bolts on the clutch spring /pressure plate.  It wasn't too bad getting the bolts out but those bolts were expensive...( I didn't think I should replace them with bits from the auto supply)

  Another thing to remember is to fully wet the plates before installing  them in the bike.
 Don't try to get the side cover off without removing the brake pedal, it's not worth spending the time wrestling it around only to realize you have to remove it anyway.
 Pay attention to the order of the washers and spacers etc. If you have a digi cam take some photo's and or good notes. 
 When installing the bolts in the pressure plate go around them evenly until they bottom.  And use a torque wrench!
  You Can Do It!!
  Tuck\o/ 

 Simple clutch pack R&R: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br63PLcq3sU

[tha.steev.oh]

Update:
Got the EBC DRC series clutch kit (including plates and springs) today. Just waiting on the clutch cover gasket - should be here tomorrow. Gonna start tearing it open tonight so I: A) have time to do it carefully & B) have time to grab other parts if they are needed before the weekend.

- Someone told me I should change the water pump seal while I'm in there since it might get damaged on removal. What do you guys think? Good idea?

Tuck: FYI - I don't read any "self-righteousness" in your response. I asked kxriders because I've been visiting for almost a year and I respect all the experience and best-practices you members can lend me. I'm more than impressed with the help I've been getting.

Keep smokin'! 
steev.oh

[Friar-Tuck]

 Oky Doke,
 I don't always come across in print in the same tone as live in person,  Any ways... I did forget to mention to be careful cleaning the gasket sealing surface.   I found a plastic wedge  like spatula used for applying bondo worked well followed with a scotchbrite.  And one more clutch vid compliments of Hughes  at DirtHammers Eat Sleep Ride: http://dirthammers.com/?p=969  

Scroll down about the lower third of the page should be the water pump info:
http://s69.photobucket.com/home/Friar-Tuck/index

Replacing the seal probably has as much to do with if you can afford it right now as much as preventative maintenance.
  You are gonna have to replace the seal at some point, it may be a week or maybe next year.
     
I couldn't find a good video on the water pump seals, maybe later

[don46]

15-40 seems to be tall, really tall gearing, and that will contribute to accelerated clutch wear, and ditch the ATF.

On a personal note I don't like EBC clutch kits, I use OEM and if I was going to go aftermarket I'd with Barnett, especially if I was racing the bike, but then thats just me.

as for the water pump seal your not going to damage it removing the clutch cover, but none the less you could replace it as a PM measure.

[greencannon]

  I am just replacing my first water pump seal now for the first time since 2001. I know ive had the cover off quite a few times over the years. Never had a problem until now. If you can spare the money, replace it. piece of mind
If not you can always access it easy later from under water pump cover, no need to remove whole clutch cover to replace just the seal. However, would be a good time to replace the water pump bearings (2) and shaft while you have cover off (or at least thorough inspection)
As for the clutch, I like to tear down first then order parts. The second time I "burned the clutch" it turned out to be a tranny problem.
I use a cheap low power impact gun from auto parts store to loosen and re-tighten clutch hub nut. I hate using straps and other special holders. I just mark the nut and shaft with a Sharpie marker for reference, grasp basket firmly with rag and let impact do the work. easy as pie. it doesnt exert a lot of force on anything and is much safer IMO