98 KX 125...Help!

[klaus]

I just got a 98 KX125 for 400bucks, needs work, but I plan on bringing it back to life. The kid I got it from said it ran great, and one day he was riding it and the clutch went out on him and he took the clutch cover off and found out that one of the 'arms' that the clutch spring bolt goes into had busted off. When I got the bike I took the disks, the inner hub, and the 'basket' out. Before I took that out I could rotate the crankshaft, and it seems to have decent compression. The kick start lever was stuck before I took the clutch out, but you could still rotate the crankshaft. I moved the kick start lever after I had the clutch out and it freed up instantly. Now heres where I mighta messed up, I put the clutch basket and hub back on without the disks, I just wanted to see if it would fire up cause he said it ran good prior to the clutch breaking, I got it fired up and it ran for 2 or 3 seconds and died. Ok, so it run, but the next time I tried to move the kickstart down it "locked" up on me. I took the clutch back out, put the bigger part of the 'basket' back on, rotate it back an forth, but it always wants to "lock" when you turn it counterclockwise, the way its supposed to turn as it runs?? So I thought maybe the impeller is sticking, take off the cover, THERES NO IMPELLER!!! Just a piece of what looks like the back of the impeller, and the bolt that holds the impeller is busted off. Where do the passages go that move the coolant through the motor? IF the impeller came apart, where can the pieces go? Lol...I am familiar with wrenching on two stroke snowmobiles, but I HAVE NEVER been inside a dirtbike motor..I need advice on what the problem can be...do I gotta split the cases and investigate further? Also, when I would rotate the clutch by holding the basket, if I go counterclockwise it moves a short bit, then it seems like it binds up?? THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP!!!!

[diesel]

Well I'm a newbie here, but I have worked on quite a few Honda TRX250R's, so I'll try to help out.  Problem is, my ramblings are going to be based on the inner workings of a 250R.

There definitely seems to be a problem related to the clutch...maybe several problems.  The kicker turns the clutch basket gear which turns the crank.  If the kicker moves freely without the clutch, and the crank turns easily without the clutch, looks like you've already identified the cause of the problems there.  In fact, it sounds like you've narrowed it down to just the basket as the culprit.  I'd grab a manual and check to make sure that all the clutch assembly needle bearings, bushings, spacers, and washers are properly installed.  If something is missing from the assembly, the basket could be getting in a bind.  How well do the gear teeth mesh between the kicker gear, basket gear, and crank gear?

I doubt that the impeller has been gone for very long, based on the fact that you still have compression.  I would expect the lack of coolant flow would cook your top-end quickly without an operational impeller.  If you still have the back of the impeller, then you're only missing the blades and the bolt, correct?  Those pieces would have followed the coolant flow, which would most likely deposit them in the water passages of the cylinder.

[klaus]

deisel,
       hey thanks for the info! I know the first thing I need to get is a repair manual! But, I did print off some pics from a parts microfiche? or whatever their called. I have all the right washers, needle bearings, and that. I can't see behind the basket very well when its on, but I can see as I'm putting it on the crankshaft. I can see where the teeth are lining up, sometimes I have to depress the kickstart lever a lil' to get those gears to line up so I can slide the clutch on all the way. once its on, if I move the kickstart lever down it will move some and then get stuck again. I've looked at all the gears that I can see inside there behind the clutch and none of them look like their gouged, or chipped, theres no shavings anywhere. Theres a set of gears just to the right of where the clutch sits, it has a nut on the end next to it, and above it theres a gear with a spring next to it, i can turn that nut with a wrench and it turns smooth and then it wants to bind up.  Turn back the other way and its very easy again. Now, I may have messed something up, I hope not. But a few times when I was trying to see why its 'binding' I kept force on the wrench when it was binding, and it all the sudden will move very easy again. None of those gears look like theyre twisting to the side when it binds either. Yes, I think the back of the impeller is there. It is a black plastic looking piece, and the bolt that holds it on is broke off. I suppode I'm going to have to use an "ez-out" bit to get that broken bolt out of there. I also noticed when I had the cover off that the previous owner used too long of a bolt for the "drain plug" so theres a nice indentation in there in the case. I will try to post some pics here.

[Coop]

Yes, I think the back of the impeller is there. It is a black plastic looking piece, and the bolt that holds it on is broke off. I suppode I'm going to have to use an "ez-out" bit to get that broken bolt out of there.

That bolt comes out from the back of the clutch cover. Pull that clutch over off and you will get it out easy peasy.

[klaus]

Coop,
      Thanks! So I just go inside behind that gear and the boltheads there? Oh yeah, if the impeller had come apart and its in the coolant passages, how can i get them out? Take the cyclinder off and blow air through it? The coolant passages I mean?

[crazyolbastard]

I might not know much but that clutch basket looks thrashed.
Is there a max. on how deep those grooves can be before it should be replaced?

[Friar-Tuck]

 Hmm..
Well the outer basket can be filed down to get the notches out of the basket, you have to try to keep the surface flat so all the plates touch at the same time.  Crazy Old was asking about how to measure the basket for a go/no go.
  put a friction disk in the basket and take a feeler gauge and measure the distance between the tang and the basket.
 New it's 0.15-0.45mm or(0.006"-0.018") the service limit is 0.8mm or (0.031")
 
  That inner basket is not cheap...I had a friend who broke his and ran a bolt all the way through from the back and used a nut and washer on the front to hold the whole mess together.  that was about five years ago and its still hanging in there...   I'm wondering if the kickstart is "Clocked" correctly, I have a copy of a kx250 pdf however I don't think it's the right year...   Maybe it will give you an Idea on how everything lines up on the starter etc.
 If the index marks on the kick gear and the ratchet are not lined up properly I don't think the kicker will work right...

   I broke a bolt head on my XR600 basket I used a reverse drill bit and the bolt spun right out. I'll look up the spec for that bolt is 8.8 N.M  or  78 INCH LBS.  be careful !
  I don't quite get how that broke on the kid while riding... that part only holds the clutch springs in place..   any ways...

 The impeller...  If there are any bits left of the water pump impeller you should be able to find them in the head, cyl and rads.
 Sorry to not to be able to give you a more definative answer...
  I think that if it was my bike I would bite the bullet and take her down to nothing and start from scratch.
That's probably the only way to know for sure what you've got. Then she should be good for years of service!
  Shoot me an e-mail and I'll send off what I have on a 125/250,
Croft_RW@Yahoo.com

  I'm wondering about that too long drain bolt...This may be a long shot... does that drain bolt have any marks on the end of it like it's hitting the bottom of clutch basket? 

  Tuck\o/

[klaus]

Tuck,
      Ha ha, I don't know how the clutch broke like that while he was riding it. Yeah, I get what crazy old was saying about the basket looking rough. First thing I need to do is pick up a manual...That drain bolt I was talking about, you can see it in the picture of the "bowl" is where my impeller is supposed to be, you can see where it bored into that "bowl" part cause it was WAY too long. The drain bolt is shorter, it looks like someone used a bolt that was meant to be on the cover. Yeah, I won't be riding this bike anytime soon...besides this clutch issue it needs swingarm bearings, ( left side feels like theres nothing in there), needs rear master cylinder, rear fender, LOTS of cleaning...but, I only payed 400bucks for it. Fix what I need to, its ok with me if it takes a little time and a little money, at least when I'm done doing what I gotta do to this thing I'll have a pretty sweet bike...I just hope it looks as good as the rest of the KX's on here!

[Friar-Tuck]

 "Drain Bolt"  I thought you were talking about the OIL drain...
     Mystery solved on the impeller.... the bolt was driven right through it! Doh!
 I have no doubt your bike will be great when she's finished.  The last three bike I have gotten for myself have been in at least three boxes when I picked them up. 
   
  You might do a quick search on swingarm bearings....they have a long history if they haven't been serviced...
But we'll keep that tidbit for later
   Take Care & best of Luck =)
    Tuck\o/

[diesel]

Yes, I think the back of the impeller is there. It is a black plastic looking piece, and the bolt that holds it on is broke off. I suppode I'm going to have to use an "ez-out" bit to get that broken bolt out of there.

That black plastic piece is your mechanical seal...keeps the trans oil and the coolant in their separate areas.  Coop is right, pull the cover off and remove the broken water pump shaft from the back.

[klaus]

I was tinkering yesterday...I discovered more problems than the clutch. I took off the power valve cover, or whatever the one is called on the lower part of the cylinder on the side. Anyway, that rod or link thing wasn't even connected to the powervalve shaft!! So I took off the pipe and looked up the exhaust port with a light and the piston looks to have lotsa scratches on the piston skirt. Definitely am taking the whole motor apart and see what else could be missing... I also noticed on the back of the inner hub for the clutch has like 4 spots where it looks like someone at some time had tried to fill in the stress cracks with some jb weld or similar "bonding agent...wtf. Isn't it crazy some of the things people will do to "repair" a part when it should be replaced? Ha ha, I will get some pics later, I have to charge the batts for my camera.