Worn rear tire better on a 4-stroke than 2-stroke

[KXcam22]

I have been noticing a strange thing.  My riding area is all full of technical twisty 1st gear hill climbs covered in roots, rocks and sometimes snow.  Real slow slip-the-clutch-in-1st stuff! Since I graduated from the K5 to a 450 MXer I have been having a difficult time climbing the same areas.  My best guess is that I get too much traction and spend too much time wheelieing on hills.  Lots of stalling and getting deflected off the trail. The strange thing is that now that my rear Millville is completely worn out I can now climb those same areas with ease.  It seems that with the rear tire spinning more the bike is easier to control, maintain momentum and literally claws its way up almost anything - kind of the opposite of what you would expect.   I am curious if other members have noticed a similar phenomina.  I guess when I shop for a new rear I will have look for a tire that is worse, not better. Hmmm. Cam.

[barryadam]

Although it is a totally different world than the KX500, we have changed to trials tires (Dunlop 803s) on both KDXs.  The change in traction and handling has made a big difference.  Instead of "spinning and clawing" (although NOT at all the same "spinning and clawing" on the 500!), the soft 803 just walks up hills with ease, giving us total confidence.
Instead of point and shoot, you can walk a tightrope up the very fine edge of a deep rut coming up an impossible steep hill, without sideslipping any at all.

Yeah, Cam, traction is a funny thing.  You need just the right amount under a variety of conditions.

[dubious01]

Hey Cam,
about 20 yrs ago I went the other direction, from an XR600 to a CR500, and I would definately agree, the 4 stroke is much more tractable and had a tendency to wheelie, rather than spin up hills. The 4 stroke just did not have the tire speed, and hooked up and wheelied, wanting to loop, rather than spin and rip up hills.

So, yes a decent tire on a 2 stroke is safer than a 4stroke in those circumstances.
The same thing will be noticed that a 4 stroke will trench rather than plane on top of soft sand especially with a new tire.

 you will love the 4 stroke when traction seems nonexistant, like when riding wet adobe sidehilling and climbing as you can keep the bike moving forward rather than spinning out
They both have their advantages for sure.
Idealy I would own both...LOL

I should add that the XCF505 I just sold was very tractable, but a handful of throttle resulted in wheelspin easy, sometimes I needed clutch to get the instant tire spin...then it would keep spinning, wheras my XR600, would hook and wheelie harder if I tried that! LOL
I think the HP and flywheel weight have alot to do with it. The new 4stroke wanted to spin, wheras the old one wanted to tractor! LOL

[kwakman]

Cam,
        Theres an argument here for having a 500 to break your new tires in, and a big 4 stroke for when theyre a bit mullered.If anyone on here can talk there other halves into letting them have another bike because of this, I want royalties!

[KXcam22]

I have found that my theory only goes so far.  For my last ride I spun my tire around to the non-worn side, which on the Millville is the soft terrain direction.  The driving side of the knobs form a cup rather than a wedge.  Temp was cold and traction was decent but the tire was NOT.  I set a new personal record for time on the ground that ride.  There was a huge difference in how the tire performed. Straightline traction poduced massive fishtailing and log crossings produced me on the ground.  When the spinning tire hit a log it would whip the bike around sideways. Once it spun around so fast it left me standing on the log with no bike and no left glove.  I am convinced that it was the "soft" rotation direction that caused my troubles.  The previous ride I was vaulting over snow covered logs without a care.  The Millville is still my favorite tire but I can't recommend using it for single track it in the "soft" terrain rotation direction.  Cam.

PS I'm still trying to shorten a funny helmet cam video so I can post it. It took 12 seconds from leaving the truck and turning on the cam, to me falling on my face on the very first log crossing. Hmmm.

[blaisintreez]

i just learned to ride450 4 strokes last year...behind the ball, more like stubborn love, i noticed slipping the rear brake allowed me to ride it the same style as i used to...(pinned,off,pinned)  i always try to carry  more momentum and (1/2-3/4, chug chug chug, 1/2-3/4) its all about using traction not losing traction, that means wide open is only for 3rd 4th an 5th....and if you need someone to break in your fresh knobbies im your man