Author Topic: Race Fuel  (Read 12455 times)

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Offline trouble

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2009, 11:53:16 AM »
JFAB, what types of mods can you do to my head so that I can raise my compression ratio?  I've got my bike torn down for the winter and can send my head to you.  Let me know what you can do so that I can squeeze some more ponies out of it.  Right now I mostly woods ride, a hare scramble here and there, and look to get into some hill climbing in 2010. 
The k5 is a bad dude, but as most, I'll always take a little more.

Offline jfabmotorsports.com

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2009, 12:21:56 PM »
PM sent
Don't just float through life, make waves!

Offline cbxracer30

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 12:25:25 PM »
Lean is mean , but it also melts down pistons . A little fat with a  good clean burning oil will keep you in the race and not spectating. Moterex racing power 2t the new oil of choice by the major teams still running 2 bangers.CBX
Yep, you can ride it - if YOU can start it !!

Offline Friar-Tuck

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 05:48:38 PM »
   
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high octane fuel is one small portion of the whole package of performance
   
     
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Race fuel does not make a bike run fast.   Race fuel makes a fast bike run.
 
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race fuel doesn't make hp, race fuel only prevents the possibility of detonation...

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a  good clean burning oil will keep you in the race and not spectating.
       
     Trouble, There is alot of experience talking here, I have visited other boards where a new guy could have gotten really ripped apart.   
    Thanks to all the guys who took the time to post up.  It would appear it was worth it!

  This  may resemble a Motley Crew, and we rarely all agree on every point, however treat these guys with  respect and you will reap the benefits of lot's of our mistakes.
   There is quite a bit involved with building H.P.   You are doing the right thing by asking for
some advice.     Read through this right quick
 http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,6385.0.html

   Tuck\o/

 P.S   Oh Yea MadDog,?? Well I think running AV gas is running the wrong additive package. :x
       In My Humble Opinion  ..... Now let's see who gets more umm ...Love... :-D
       
 
 
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Offline maddoggy

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2009, 06:13:26 AM »
i was not speaking of aviation gas here tuck. i'm just speaking of your average 7-11 fuel. bad stuff!!!!!

Offline Friar-Tuck

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2009, 08:36:03 AM »
  Yea,
 I got that,
I have been a part of the av gas debate as well, and was thinking I'd get more "hits"
 fishing with the av gas statement...
     The "average Bear" here seems to be well aware of my sophomoric ploy.... :-(.
    and now, back to the regularly scheduled program... :-D
  Tuck\o/
"The Truth Has No Agenda"

Offline BDI

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2009, 10:43:09 AM »
We were at the dyno with my buddies turbo car, we had the boost cranked up as high as we could go with pump gas. We drained out the fuel and pored in some high octain race fuel. When we made the base line pass the car lost 40 horse. Now with the race gas we were able to turn the boost way up and make way more power then with the pump gas. the moral is you will make the most power with fuel whos octain is best matched to the compression of your engine. The reason a stock bike will run cooler with high octain fuel is you don't have the comp to burn it.
Smoke every cigarette like It's your last and ride like you stole something!!!

Offline sandman540

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2009, 12:13:49 PM »
another thought on av gas is that 100 octane low lead or 100LL has more lead than regular gas of the 60's. theres so much lead that it will destroy an engine that is not at high altitude i.e. aircraft. gums em right up. more food for thought as a buddy is in the av gas business

Offline Friar-Tuck

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2009, 12:28:28 PM »
  So there's more to making your bike faster than just running synthetic oil and race fuel?
There is  NO BENEFIT to using a higher octane than your engine needs.
  I'll try to be brief.....
  
 Octane rating is a measure of the auto ignition resistance of gasoline and other fuels used in spark-ignition internal combustion engines.

Octane is NOT a measure of power but of the fuels? resistance to ignition from heat.
 A higher-octane fuel, under identical combustion chamber conditions, will burn slower than a lower number.

  As the piston, quickly squeezing the fuel/air mixture into a small space, it can generate enough heat of compression to ignite the fuel well before the spark plug fires, with unpleasant results...  Detonation....
  
 If the fuel prematurely ignites while the piston is on its way up, the burning of the fuel, in conjunction with the rising piston, creates even more pressure, resulting in a violent explosion.
   This explosion is equivalent to hitting the top of the piston with a very large hammer. If you want to be able to see through the top of your piston, ignore those sounds that are usually called: "pre-ignition", "ping" or "engine knock".

What we really want is a very rapid controlled  burn of the fuel, not an explosion.
     And we want the burning of the fuel to take place while the piston is in a better position to convert this pressure into productive work.

It might seem odd that fuels with higher octane ratings burn less easily, yet are popularly thought of as more powerful. The misunderstanding is caused by confusing the ability of the fuel to resist compression detonation (pre-ignition = engine knock) as opposed to the ability of the fuel to burn (combustion).
     Premium grades of fuel often contain more energy per gal/ litre due to the composition of the fuel as well as increased octane.
 
    This is why when BDI's dyno run with race fuel lost HP on the initial fuel swap.
  The engine was tuned to run with the pump gas,
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we had the boost cranked up as high as we could go with pump gas
the race fuel would  burn slower.
  
Tuning the engine to run with the race fuel produced more power as they could increase cyl. pressure/timing etc. (BMEP) without detonating the fuel prematurely.
   The opposite will happen running the race fuel in your bike if it's not tuned/built to run with it.   The slower burning fuel will cause your cyl. pressure to actually drop if nothing else has been changed.  
   Running the race fuel in a stock engine shouldn't do any damage.
I hope this makes some sense.
 It's a pretty complicated subject worth spending some time on.

   I am with you sandman,  an aircraft engine is running in quite a different environment. :wink:
      Tuck\o/
  
  
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Offline Larry Wiechman

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2009, 01:05:00 PM »
 So there's more to making your bike faster than just running synthetic oil and race fuel?
Lots of stickers!
 
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A higher-octane fuel, under identical combustion chamber conditions, will burn slower than a lower number.

Flame front burns at the same speed, it's just a little harder to get it to start burning.

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 As the piston, quickly squeezing the fuel/air mixture into a small space, it can generate enough heat of compression to ignite the fuel well before the spark plug fires, with unpleasant results...  Detonation....

Abnormal combustion before the plug fires is pre-ignigtion.

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 If the fuel prematurely ignites while the piston is on its way up, the burning of the fuel, in conjunction with the rising piston, creates even more pressure, resulting in a violent explosion.
   This explosion is equivalent to hitting the top of the piston with a very large hammer. If you want to be able to see through the top of your piston, ignore those sounds that are usually called: "pre-ignition", "ping" or "engine knock".

A very good description of detonation.

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    Premium grades of fuel often contain more energy per gal/ litre due to the composition of the fuel as well as increased octane.

BTU/gallon is the same.
 
  
Friar, You been hit'n the egg nog already? :-D

Offline kaw rider

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2009, 02:34:30 PM »
Heat is power, now you just have to control it.

Offline Friar-Tuck

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2009, 04:21:05 PM »
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Flame front burns at the same speed & BTU/gallon is the same
   I didn't know that! 
     That's why I'm here Larry, there is so much to learn...and so little time!
  Tuck\o/ 
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stewart

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2009, 12:46:07 AM »
i like vp  fuels website some good info on race fuel and its use

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/page469659.html
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 03:24:05 AM by Danger4u2 »

Offline Polar-Bus

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2009, 04:08:03 AM »
i like vp  fuels website some good info on race fuel and its use

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/page469659.html

I've talked with many racers in years past, and most agree VP C12 is about the best suited for 2 stroke race applications. The only reason I run Cam II is that it's available close to me 24/7. I'm told Cam II and VP C12 are almost identical with respect to chemical composition...
01' KX500
'84 GPz1100
'87 GSX-R  750
'06 HD Fatboy
'73 Kawi H1
'03 CRG KX500 Shifter kart

Offline Polar-Bus

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Re: Race Fuel
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2009, 04:16:18 AM »
Race fuel does not make a bike run fast. Race fuel makes a fast bike run.

It makes it smell fast.   :-D :-P

When I load a KX500 running Cam II, and Klotz R50 into the starting gate, riders around me just shiver from the SMELL the fear when I fire that bit@h up !!  :)
01' KX500
'84 GPz1100
'87 GSX-R  750
'06 HD Fatboy
'73 Kawi H1
'03 CRG KX500 Shifter kart