Chronic problems?

[Zombie]

Hey all. while I was looking around on the 'net, I came across Larry's CR site, and saw some ugly pics of a blown transmission, and some other people there have had blown trannys and cracked cases and bearing cups, etc.  All this got me wondering, what problems should I look for when looking at a 500? I know about the expansion chamber tab under the tank, (It happened on my 85, and my fix was ultra low-tech- hose clamp the stinger to the frame)) and to check the bottom frame rails (they were smashed on my 85, but I got new ones made.) and to make sure the suspension linkages and related parts dont have any slop in them.  It seems that CR trannys arent very reliable, so, what about KXs? Any common failings besides that infuriating pipe tab? Whats likely to be the first thing to go? Any and all input would be aprecciated!!
Later!

-Z

[Rick]

The first thing to go on ALL of my 500's (I buy a new one every year or two, so anything that happens is related to my riding) is the top radiator tab breaks at the 90 degree bend.  On the first one in 1999, I had it fixed.  However, after that first one, I just let it stay broken.  To my surprise, because the radiator has 3 mounts, the other two mounts, plus the top hose connecting the two radiators holds the radiator in position.  I don't even think about it anymore.

The second thing to brake was the kick lever, but as everyone on this site should already know, the 2002 kicker fixed this problem.

Rick

[ShanMan]

Seems to me that the KX5 tranny is pretty good. my '87 still has all the original tranny stuff (minus seals, which have been replaced) and other than a notchy second gear seems to work fine. I think the most cronic issue with the older KX5's seems to be blowing out base gaskets. The newer bikes have the rubberized steel gaskets that apparently fixes this however.

[Paul]

d**n Rick, the only radiator related problems that I've had is keeping the louvers on the bike

The first thing to go on ALL of my 500's (I buy a new one every year or two, so anything that happens is related to my riding) is the top radiator tab breaks at the 90 degree bend.  On the first one in 1999, I had it fixed.  However, after that first one, I just let it stay broken.  To my surprise, because the radiator has 3 mounts, the other two mounts, plus the top hose connecting the two radiators holds the radiator in position.  I don't even think about it anymore.

The second thing to brake was the kick lever, but as everyone on this site should already know, the 2002 kicker fixed this problem.

Rick

The bike has been around in its present shape for many years. One benefit is that the bugs are worked out and you have a very reliable machine on your hands. The downside... it looks like its been around for many years

[Rick]

Paul,

Boy do I have a fix for you.  If I had read your post before lunch, I would have taken a few pictures to post.  

Like so many other KX500 riders, I, too, lost so many radiator louvers that kept a spare set in my van (oh yea, I posted a couple of pictures of the inside of the race van this morning).  However, in the middle of the night, my brain found a solution (I hate when this happens, as I have to get up and draw pictures in order to remember.  I designed an all steel tilt front end like this several years ago, all in one night.  Ugh!)

I picked up two pieces of stainless sheet, maybe 1/16, about 1 inch wide, and long enough to extend from just past the top and bottom radiator shroud mounting bolts.  I removed my shrouds from the bike, held the little plate on the edge of the radiator so both mounting bolts were covered, and marked the holes from the front side of the radiator.  I drilled these holes just larger than the standard radiator shroud bolts so the bolts could pass through the holes into the little weird nuts on the radiator mounts.

Next, I drilled two holes evenly spaced in the middle of the bar, mounted the bar to the radiator without the shrouds, and drilled into the louvers.  I installed two bolts to hold the louver to the bar, and then installed the shrouds which holds the bar in place on the radiator tabs.  Viola!  After a year of hard riding and racing, not one louver lost.

The only problem now is that my louvers last so long, they get looking a little drab.

Hopefully my explanation is good enough to follow.  If not, maybe I can snap a few pictures.

In the past few days, I have also welded three nuts on my pipe to secure the pipe guard, and repainted with high temp paint.  While I was at it, I sheared two pieces of 3/16 aluminum, and cut out two pieces of high impact plastic stuff to make a new, stronger chain guide.  Mine was in pieces after hitting something (not sure what, as I did not even know it was broken until I washed my bike after returning home ), so instead of spending $30, I spent a couple hours in the garage with big green.  Too much fun...

Rick

[teamgreen500]

Tranny problems? Funny you should ask!

I just found you guys (This Very Cool forum...) after working on my bike ALL DAY, changing tires, changing filter, changing sparky to silencer, changing IMS to Moto gas tank, 18" rear to 19"...blah, blah, blah...and then I fire up the bike to warm up the oil and change it. No big deal right?

WRONG!

So, I'm warming it up and once the cylinder starts to "feel" pretty warm I "clean it out" by gassin' it a little like you would while waiting for your minute at an enduro and... Ka-chunk!...it's in gear!...uh, this is the weird part...IT'S ON A STAND and I'm standing next to it on the throttle side of the bike...It put ITSELF in gear like some-kinda darn bad movie...Stephen King kinda stuff...so, it's jumped into gear and I'm thinking,"Hmmmmm, that's not good". Kill button time. Thank God I use a Worx stand that has the wheels off the ground!

I walk around to the other side:

There's no "magic" item around that knocked it into gear (I'd looked immediately as I hit the kill button already...).

There's no-way to "kick-it" into gear on the stand/by the stand (I run my shifters pretty high...I don't like it when rocks and stuff try to shift my bike for me...it's a desert thing).

Everything looks right...it must be a scene outta "Who Made Who", the movie!

So, I'll put it in "N" and fire it right up...right?

NOT!!!!

I'm now the proud owner of (Emig early '90's works tranny?) a 4 SPEED non neutral KX500! Oh, and another thing: If you start it and try to go anywhere...it "drags" itself to a stall or starts going and then is kind enough to lock up!

In the words of Austin Powers,"First I plan to soil myself...any suggestions?"

This really crapped on my practice day at Marrysville MX tommorow.

About radiators and louvers:

I've never had a problem: HOWEVER, I've never had stock radiators. At Kawi they take stock rad's and weld 'em up. You can have any good welder do this. Also, it appears that they:

Add bracing to upper  frame mounts.
Weld-up the left side's "plasic" plug.
Weld the folded seams at the tank/core.
Weld/add material to the shroud-mounts.
Add/Weld  shroud spacers to Rt. rad. for IMS tank.
There doesn't seem to be anything done to the lower frame mounts.

There's an old "Dirt-Rider" article that has great pic's and explnt's of all the "Team Green" mod's for KX 500s. I'll try to get it from Wolf on-line and post it here...does anyone already have it?

Well, that's all I got to say about that...

Manny

[Paul]

The last thing I have to add to this thread would be about the countershaft seal leakage. There is a thread on it in here somewhere... let me seee.....

OH Yeah, here it is...
Counter Shaft discussion

[John]

Hi teamgreen500,

I had the same gear problem as you have and mayby the solution is the same? There is a spring on the clutch-side of the engine which keeps the gear lever in position (i.e. the gears). That spring was broken and it caused all sorts of funny effects...

It's called 92144-1142    SPRING,CHANGE SHAFT RETURN, check out this URL  www.buykawasaki.com

[teamgreen500]

Sir John,

Thanks for the idea; however, I'm taking my motor down to John Brasch tonight and letting "The Pros" handle it.

I'm very interested in WHY it happened/HOW it happened. I'd like to make sure it's not due to some tranny mod/gear change. I'm getting ready to go back to "The Best in the Desert" series and I want to be sure that there are no suprises. Hmmmmmm...is it KX250F time?

BTW, you Motard guys have absolutely the coolest looking KXs. That's what I'm planning for the motor in question...you know, Thunderhill and Willow Springs are just paved deserts....

Thanks, and thanks to who(m)ever runs this forum. This is the perfect thing to find when you're trying to figure out an unusual problem.

Thanks again,

Manny

[Rick]

Manny,

John's done a lot of work on our bikes over the years, included replacing a crank on a KX125 the night before a Hare & Hound at a Southern California race.  We finished installing the motor late in the evening, and did not have one problem the entire race...errr except the handle bar bent straight up after a really hard getoff in the dust...

The spring is realatively easy to get to (if this is the problem), and I think everyone would be really curious to hear about the final cause/fix of your problem.

While there is always occassional failures with anything mechanical, I have never heard of any "chronic" problem with the KX500 tranny.  I would be curious to hear John's thoughts on this issues as well.

Thanks for the input.

Rick

[Rick]

dang, forgot to talk about the radiators....

I took a look at Brian's radiator mods a couple of years ago, and have never understood why Kawasaki replaces the plastic plug with a weld, as I don't think this thing has a chance of leaking.  I also checked out the other mods, and elected not to mess with the radiator tank crimp either, as I have never seen just a tank leaking after a crash. Almost every ride/race ending radiator failure I have seen involved damage to the down tubes.

With that said, the one area I would consider reinforcing with a weld is the bottom radiator hose bib, as this is just a press fit.  A pretty good rap on the radiator in a crash can cause a little leak here.  I hit a tree dead center on the shifter side radiator several years ago in the woods, and the radiator started leaking fluid there.  (suprisingly enough there was no other damage to the radiator)  The simple fix to finish the ride was to just loosen the radiator cap (usually not a good idea, but better than pushing the bike back to the truck.)  Once back at the truck, I layed the bike on it's side, pulled the damaged radiator, and wrapped a little Locktite epoxy around the neck.  Sold the bike a year later with this fix still installed, and it's still running strong.

Another crash involved hiting a stump on the bottom of the shifter side radiator sooooo hard that is twisted the bottom of the radiator about 30 degrees.  The radiator held strong, but (unbeknownst at the time), the fuel line was pulled off, resulting in the bike draining all this precious fluid onto the ground.  Mylers twisted the radiator back in shape for only $75.

I guess the point here is that if I were factory KX, I would eliminate ALL variables, and weld the radiator solid.  But for the privateer racer/trail rider, the money is probably not worth spending.

Keep up the postings, your info is great food for thought...

Rick

[teamgreen500]

Rick & Co.,

Good point on the bibs, they're welded also. I had a radiator leak at the "folded" seam once while ridin' a '90 500 Realllllllly hard at Pismo. It only did it just a little and it was replaced soon after; however, during a Hollister Hare-scramble and a Clear Creek enduro (the radiators were used by a friend) there were no leaks later!(go figure).

I know that welding the radiators is pre-DH and I remember LR having welded radiators on a '89(?) "White" KDX200 during a Baja pre-run. Also, on his "Over-Lit" 500 race bike that year...if you know what I mean.

About KX5 tranny problems: While I went down to So Cal this weekend (I live in Redding...600 miles to the North...trully Northern California...) I dropped the motor off at Team Green (And got an eye and earfull of Chicken's K5 Super-mo AND his/Kawi's K250F Super-mo...Hotter than Pam Anderson at "The River.....") and then went over to Chapparal to pick up a new WR450 for a friend....$6300 out the door, thank you Sean Hummel...and Sean was telling me this story about his '87 K5 back in the day............(Wayne's World video fade effect starting NOW................):

Sean starts telling the story as his eyes look off into the past and you could see him going back in time in his mind...
"So, I'm on the starting line @ Sand Hill and I'm putting my goggles on while my dad is warming up the motor...when all of a sudden the bike takes off over the starting gate without me! It just took off OVER THE STARTING GATE and I was left on my butt where my bike WAS!
It turns out that a spring in the tranny or the clutch, some-where in their just failed..so your little mishap isn't that unusual..."

So, I guess our friend from the U.K. may have diagnosed this one or, at least, I hope it's straight forward.

Here's another thing: On Thanksgiving day I was THROWN to the ground by a locked up/locking up rear wheel that was not explainable. I am totally capable of accepting "Pilot Error"; however, when you are landing straight as an arrow on a "Double Downhill" jump for the 20th time and you feel the back end "drag" and hi-side you into the X-ray room...well, we thought it was the rear brakes (I was using a set of wheels with desert/heavier/thicker discs...that had never been a problem before or since!)

So now that I've gone thru this (Remember, when I restarted the bike after the "Mystery shift" it would "drag" itself to a stall as I released the clutch) I'm wondering if it's related to my Down-Hill-SLAM!

Oh, and another thing I learned while I was down there: A friend of mine bought LR's '98-'99 MacPherrson Racing class 7U S-10...you know, the truck that he SPANKED everyone with in Baja...it's a small world. I love having another reason to Pre-run the 1K! Come on November!

Hmmmmm....now where do I get a Desert Tank for a KX250F? I mean, I gotta keep it fair for all those guys pre-runnin' on 4-strks...don't I?

Well, I'll get some Digi-pics when I go back (K5 and KXF Supers) to get my motor and I'll post'em here....or if anyones going to the "Dealer Show"...they'll be there.

Now, does anyone know anything about a really trick KXF with "Chevy" graphics and "259" on the # plate...Hmmmmmmmm?

And another thing...Kawasaki couldn't be building there own KX450F and tellin' Suzuki,"No thanks" to there 450...could they? Would it look just like the 250F with very slight frame changes and a motor that's "Just a little" bigger looking? Could it be a 4-speed? Will they make "KD" versions? Are they making they're own after-market goodies ala "GYT"?

Na...it must just be RUMORS!
Gawd, I love a good "Forum"...you hear the darnedest things....

Manny

[teamgreen500]

YES! I'm so HAPPY!

Just got off the phone with Johnny Braasch at Kawi!

"I know what's wrong without even opening it up...sometimes...actually, I've only seen it about 6 or 7 times, a gear will 'weld' itself to the shaft. I think it's second gear on the output side. I'll have it done in about a week!"

You see, this is a big deal to me because of ALL the K5s I've had, this is my Eleanor! This bike has been thru a Head-on, Crazy Trails from Hell rides, Track-time that would raise the hair on your neck and even some pre-running that was FASTER then the race itself.

So, now I'm going to get it all prep'd for racing AND pick me up a KLX 400 or build a new KDX500SR for pre-running.

Now, where can I find 2 level headed Expert off-road riders that're OVER 40 and want to see all the young kids cry when we whhoooooop their A$$E$ at the BITDs next year?

Anyone, Bueller, anyone...?

BTW, I AM NOT KIDDING!     OOOOHHHH  RAHHHHHH!

Manny

[Paul]

Rick, he's got your number as I'm not old enough

[teamgreen500]

Anyone, Bueller, Anyone?

Manny