Author Topic: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke  (Read 12707 times)

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Offline FuriouSly

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2007, 12:20:43 PM »
Update:  I went back and added some info to the original post in GLOW

Offline kx666

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2007, 12:36:54 PM »
Lead is (was) added to fuel for a number of resons. it changes the octane of the fuel and it works as a cushin on impact (not to be comfused with lubercatioon).  there are 2 common ways to messure octane, RON (Research octane number) and MON (mechanical octane number).  usually at the pump you will see them averaged, ignore it. pay closer attention to MON (usually the lower number) that is the only one your motor will notice.

2 strokes and old 4 strokes love leaded fuel. if you use leaded fuel in modern 4 strokes you can cause a lot of damage.
~steve

Offline raredesign

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2007, 04:13:38 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.
I had posted some questions before about jetting, because I was/am getting some surging. Do you think that running higher octane and leaded gas will help smooth that out?

Offline FuriouSly

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2007, 04:21:23 AM »
Quote
Does the leaded gas cause a carbon buildup greater than what you would normally get?
Yes and No.  On a well built/maintained two stroke motor that is properly jetted with a good quality premix at a ratio of 40:1 or 50:1.....  you might tell that the leaded has a little more carbon build-up.  BUT,  on 90% of the 2S bikes out there there is so much left over products of combustion that you can't tell the difference in buildup.  Cheap premix at 24:1 ratio,  leaking crank seals letting oil into cylinder, over oiled air filter leakage, and not tearing down the cylinder to scrape out a seasons worth of carbon build-up causes more issues with buildup.

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Are there downsides to switching back and forth, such as if I want to try it, or if I simply want to use it when I can?
You can easily switch back and forth when needed, just make sure you keep the premix ratio correct.  But, once you try some race gas... even at 50/50, you will have a tough time going back to 91 unleaded.  Your bike will just not be as snappy.

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Do you recommend only using pump leaded, or would an additive be fine?
True lead additives do help raise and stabilize octane in unleaded fuels.  BUT,  in high performance motors like a KX 2S,  the unleaded pump gas just is not engineered with the high energy chracteristics in the fuel from the start.  SO,  you may take the 91 unleaded to 95 octane with an overdose of additive, but the fuels designed energy level will still be less powerful than VP C12 mixed 50/50 with 91 unleaded.  Most true lead additives can be multi dosed to increase octane but usually only by 2 pts per dose.


Quote
I had posted some questions before about jetting, because I was/am getting some surging. Do you think that running higher octane and leaded gas will help smooth that out?
Yes and No....  What bike and year do yo have?  Whens the last time it has been rebuilt?  Top end and Bottom end with new gaskets, crank bearings and seals?  Is it jetted right on?  Any air leaks at the reed block or intake boot?  Surges at idle or when you let of the gas rapidly after full or 3/4 throttle?  So many variables to take into account.  Funny, but these motors are very simple and yet can be very difiicult to fine tune.  Eveything affects everything when it comes to motor performance.

Sly
« Last Edit: January 26, 2007, 04:26:56 AM by FuriouSly »

Offline raredesign

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2007, 06:53:49 AM »
Sly - Thanks for the replies.

The surging happens when I let off from around 3/4 throttle. While it is surging, if I feather the gas about 1/8 throttle or less "if that is possible", then the surge instantly stops.
I tried using ether to find a leak, but did not find any. I do have a torque reed spacer, but again, no leak. I even rejet it richer...especially now that it is winter, but even with the richer jets in 50 degree weather, it was surging.

I will have to try this fuel stuff out..thanks for the info!

Offline raredesign

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2007, 08:50:43 AM »
WOW, is there anything as good but less expensive than this VP C12 race fuel? This stuff is like 10 bucks / gallon! ...that is what, 5 flicks of the wrist? lol

Offline kx666

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2007, 02:42:02 AM »
WOW, is there anything as good but less expensive than this VP C12 race fuel? This stuff is like 10 bucks / gallon! ...that is what, 5 flicks of the wrist? lol

thats why i usually rike other bikes, the k5 is for speacail ocations.  :wink:

as for switching between fuels, you will have to re-jet the bike to make it run correctly and if you are using fuel additives be careful most aditives DO NOT alow your pre-mix to mix. i am not positive but i think the type of alcohols thay use.

Offline redlined_KX500

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2007, 01:42:29 AM »
 Which VP fuel is better to run @ 50/50 with pump gas?  C12 or U2

I'm not clear if the C12 is leaded or not.  My K5 was jetted close stock @32:1/pump gas but now I'm waiting on my top end to come back from eric gorr with port work plus a PC works and V2 reeds and curious if I should make a changes richer or leaner before I start it with C12/U2 and syn oil at 50:1.
Don't be scared

stewart

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2007, 02:14:40 AM »
run a 50 pilot jet and 175  mian  in pwk carb with u2 gas   b9 plug  yes c12 is leaded

Offline redlined_KX500

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2007, 12:05:29 PM »
Only fuel I could find local was the C12.  I'm running the beast on it straight for now at 50:1 with mobil 1 racing 2T. Runs great but.........

I'd like to get some U2 to compare then stick with the best from now on.

Question is now my jetting is 55, 165, 2.5 turns, 3rd clip.  What changes would I have to make with U2.?  My riding averages around 700 feet elevation.
Don't be scared

Offline FuriouSly

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2007, 07:56:43 PM »
Redlined:

Quote
but now I'm waiting on my top end to come back from eric gorr with port work plus a PC works and V2 reeds

Question is now my jetting is 55, 165, 2.5 turns, 3rd clip.  What changes would I have to make with U2.?  My riding averages around 700 feet elevation.

So you put Gorr's top end on?  What type of porting if any?  Up compression?  If mild to stock comp then U2 would be fine... its 101 octane leaded.

Quote
run a 50 pilot jet and 175  mian  in pwk carb with u2 gas   b9 plug  -  stewart

Sound good if mild to stock comp with reeds and pipe.  700 feet may need 55 pilot and needle in the middle clip.  You ride and break it in already?  IF not, 182 main fat-start it at idle with little blips of throttle for about 3-5 mins until warm and shut down-let cool completely.  Do one more time.  Then take it out, warm it up and run it HARD WOT on some slight incline hills to set the rings.  You'll love it.

Sly

Offline redlined_KX500

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2007, 11:09:46 PM »
Hey Sly,

I had already broken in couple days ago using the steps outlined in the complete top end rebuild thread. Except I heat cycle 3 times before I rode it. The piston/cylinder wall clearance slightly under the minimum.

I'm riding today so I'll try the clip, and pilot change to see what happens.

I had EG do his best mid to top end port work.  I don't ride alot of tight areas so low-end isn't a concern.  Compared to stock it's definitely a little softer off idle but the hit is much harder and seems much broader and also it has a very strong over rev.  Before it would sign off flat.

I didnt measure the compression yet. I did check the squish. It was 1.4 with stock base gasket and the .2 metal factory head gasket.
Don't be scared

Offline alexander-vmann

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2017, 12:12:47 AM »
I cant get leaded fuel here where i live, so i run on shell v power, its got the highest octane rating around here, is it possible to a lead substitute? (I cant get lead either) will lead substitute have the same benefits as regular lead?
KX 500 newbie

my bike: 1993 kx500

Offline Foxx4Beaver

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Re: "Fuel" needs for the Two-Stroke
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2017, 10:47:35 AM »
I myself have never been a fan of the lead additives/octane boosters, though some do show slight improvements...they're just not worth the money...otherwise you'd see a lot more of the motorsports industry using them.
If you suspect you're pinging, and can't get good quality fuel...then you could always have your head re-cut, so it'll run strong on the best fuel you're able to get.
Excuse me, ma'am...but you've got extremely nice legs!!!...what time do they open???                                                                                                               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8tCgN3aryQ