Kickstart ratchet wear

[Johnniespeed]

 Hello everyone!  My kickstart has been slipping a little this summer and now with colder weather it slips a lot.  I finally tore it down expecting to see chips off the leading edge of the ratchet and gear teeth, but found none. I  looked very closely and see that the ratchet teeth are not machine surfaces, but they are a cast surface. I believe the teeth should have a 90 degree engagement surface, but they are rough cast and are angled.  Putting a new ratchet and gear in will probably provide a temporary fix, but I feel that if they were machined better from the factory this slipping would never happen. I am very tempted to improve the engagement surface with a dremel tool.  I need to know if anyone has every tried this before ? and did it work well ?
  I value the opinions of the people on this site and will appreciate advice and comments.
 Thanks  John

[Johnniespeed]

 Apparently nobody has noticed the kickstart ratchet teeth are not a machined surface. Ok so I will be the dumb guy to try something unproven.  I took the ratchet and spur gear and reshaped the ratchet teeth so that they are a 90degree surface from the shaft. Now both of the surfaces have a flat contact surface and should not slip again.  I have started the bike about a dozen times and ridden it twice, it works perfect.  This is one of those modifications that will not prove or disprove itself until much riding and time.
  It still would be nice to hear from anyone that has tried this or understands what I am talking about.

[FuriouSly]

Did you take some pictures of the parts and the modification?  Makes it easier for us imaginationallyer challenged to see what doohicky your talkin' about.. 

Sly

[Johnniespeed]

   I bought a Gnarly pipe with the camera money. And now I want that new ERV3 xring chain to replace the ERV2.  I have not tried to put the bike on my flatbed scanner. LOL John

[kx666]

just dont do what i did... i bought a camera abbout 4 years ago but i dont remember how to use it or where i left the cord...

[Johnniespeed]

 You should have used the camera money on  a new pipe !   LOL    I went riding today, a beautiful bright sunny day over 55 degrees and no snow.  The kickstarter worked perfectly, if this holds up long term, then I think I am on to something here. Also this modification didnt cost anything except a clutch cover gasket. The local dealer choked this week and didnt get a gasket in time, luckily there is an ice racer/ hill climber nearby that had an extra gasket, he is my new hero.

[Danger4u2]

I've had starter issues:

http://www.kxriders.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=80

[Johnniespeed]

Danger , you have great clear photos. On your photo called Rachet Gear Spring, you can clearly see the where the spur gear rachet teeth contact the ratchet teeth. This lools like a squiggly line but it clearly shows that the ratchet teeth are not shaped correctly. Yes they do operate, but if they were machined correctly, none of us would have slipping issues. ( except for your missing parts) 
  It is my opinion that the engagement surface should be 90 degrees from the shaft and each engagement surface should be parallel to each other.
  By the way, my new KX500 was delivered with the KIPS shaft seal not pressed into its bore, I had an oil leak from day one. It was a very easy fix, but I felt I should not have had to do that. Love the bike anyway.  John

[Danger4u2]

I think they could have done a better job in the kick start department.  Before I tore into my bike to fix my starter problems I ordered all the parts that might be bad.  I was looking at the parts the day they came in and I also thought the edges of the ratchet gear should be sharper and should match up better.  I have not had any starter issues since the "fix".
Danger

[openclass]

You know I rode my 90 for 6 years before it was parked, (retired up till lately).I never had a problem with the kick stater. Do you think it could be a casting problem, like they had on the late model chevy 350 motors? They used the mold so many times that it was getting out of tolerences.

[KDXGarage]

What did you use to get the ratchet gear and spur gear cut?  My 1991 KDX250 has rounded off teeth on the gears, and it had to (currently disassembled pending a rebuild) get a few kicks to find a place where it would catch.

Thanks!

[Johnniespeed]

 To do it right I would have used an indexing head and surface grinder. However I no longer work in a machine shop, so I did the best I could.   I clamped the gear to the work bench, used a magnifying lamp, and did it free hand using a small die grinder ( dremel) and a grinding tip. I made sure I was sitting down and braced my arms against the workbench. I used very slight pressure and checked the gear against the ratchet. I went around both sets several times, fitting them together for an "eyeball fit"  Since nobody seems to have tried this before, I spent a real long time to get it as close as I could. The kickstart has worked flawless ever since. Time will tell if this is a long term fix. 
  If anyone has the equipment to do this in a precise manor and has the desire to machine out  a few sets, I wouldn't mind having a spare, "just in case"

[Johnniespeed]

 Just an update on my kickstarter modification from two years ago. The kickstarter has worked flawlessly now for two years. It never slipped again after sharpening the ratchet teeth.  I recomend this super cheap fix to anyone with a slipping kickstart ratchet.
   John

[nd4speed]

I understand what you are talking about and may try it.

But on another note my kickstart gear started slipping like this on both an 86 Tecate 3 and an 86 Kx250.
Did not have a problem until the waterpump seals went bad and the oil became contaminated with coolant/water and turned milky. Replaced seal and oil and no more slipping.

[Johnniespeed]

This is the topic I wanted to draw attention too.