Suspension help

[hughes]

Hey Guy's

This saturday I finally got to ride some real tight single track up and down some good hill climbs. I need some help to get this old bike of mine track alittle better. Some of this single track was a single rut trail with trees on each side of my handle bars . My problem is getting my bike to turn in this tight stuff. I am running the forks 10mm up in the clamps. I have the sag set at 4in(I think I will recheck).I'm running .46 front springs and a stock rear. 1'm 6'1 and 250lbs. I was thingking of setting the sag at 3.5 or 3 in to put more weight forward to keep the front loaded. I am limited due to the age of my bike but any thing ya'll can think of would be great.

[gowen]

Hughes, I tend to stiffen/raise the rear shock. Also, the front forks. If they are droopy (KX's always are) they tend to suck in the corners. Your best bet might be lower the forks slightly to help with quick steering. That should help alot. Also, try working on your form in the corners. I tend to either stand on the pegs and have the ass-end passing me in the corners, to keep on the power while in and also while exiting the corner, or sitting on my ass. Either one, both are good.

[KXcam22]

Hughes,
  I appreciate your problem.  I run my forks higher up than you, 20mm on mine.   Some things to try are:

1. raise your forks more. 
2. stiffen the fork rebound. This will keep the front end tucked under. Go 2 clicks at a time to see a difference.
3. experiment with weighting the pegs when you ride.  Try putting all your weight on the inside peg and see how your bike responds. My 92 really responds well to this. When I ride this type of terrain I tend to crouch low, but not sit, and use the pegs to mostly steer the bike.
4. Tire choice. Some tires just don't like ruts.

Hope this helps. Cam.

[hughes]

Kxcam22 wrote stiffen the fork rebound.

I have only compression adjustment on these old school forks. I am thinking that my rebound is controlled by fork oil weight. I'm running 15wt. right now. I am going to try moving the forks up alittle higher. What about sag? Would setting it at 3-3.5 inches put more weight on the front end. It seems like the front end floats in and out of these ruts. This stuff is 1st. gear tight stuff. I have tried the weighted the pegs and it works good for after we get back out on a fire road and I have a chance to get the speed up. With some of this single track you would be coming down a steep down hill and then a almost 90' turn at the bottom then back up another hill. At this point is where I need to be able to turn and point and shoot. In the wider trails I can slide her alittle bit and point and shoot.That vinly seat cover of mine is gone. I wanted to keep the factory look but I had a hell of a time staying on the seat. I just need to make some adjustment and go ride again. I think I need a new bike for the woods or just to learn how to ride. This ole bike is my first and I can ride the hell out of keeping up with the Yamaha WR'S and some KTM'S but I am paying for at the end of the day. I need to ride harder and push my body harder just keep them close. Thanks again.

I am need of new bar cones. Could these have an effect on the issues I have listed above??

[gowen]

1. raise your forks more. 

Whoops, that is what I ment. As in lower the tripple clamp on the fork. I get it confused. lol

[hughes]

I would like to know what everybodies take on what effect worn rubber bars mounts would have on the handling of my bike or your bike if you had an issue.

[gowen]

Hughes, I guess it depends on how worn they were. I'd assume it would feel slack and heavy in the corners. Also, would cause some wobble in the head due to not being able to hold it still with a tight grip. I can't imagine it having any serious effect asided from a loose feel in the corners and over the whoops.

[hughes]

I am getting that loose feeling. I hope the new nylon mounts can help. I am going to try a 90/100/21 tire up front this summer. The front end seems like it just wants to float or wonder around in the turns. With the single track through the woods the front end wants to pull out of the line I am trying to take. I think with new mounts and bring the forks up alittle more will help and maybe the wider front tire. Thanks.

[gowen]

Checked the steering head bearing? Maybe too loose or worn out?

[hughes]

New steering head bearings got two rides on them and I have been playing with the tension on them. I would say the new bearings have helped a little. I do like the bearing heads tight. Thanks.

[alan]

Bearing loading is usually not and adjustment!  Correct me if I am wrong?

Alan

[KXcam22]

Hughes,
  A couple of more things that might work. First, what tire are you running?  Also, can you run your bar clamps forward like the newer KX.  Turning the bar clamp around so the offset is forward moves the bars (and the riders weight) forward 1/2". It helped a lot on mine.  My 92 was also very particular to tire type when around ruts.  Took me 3 tries to get a front tire that did what I wanted.  Before that ruts were death.  Do your forks feel stiff? I am not familiar with the forks on your bike but owned a CR500 of the same year (Showa vs your Kayaba). With most cartridge forks, any oil stiffer than 10wt makes them work poorly.  Not sure what is recommended but the 15wt sounds like it might be too thick especially with the .46 springs.  It might be that the forks don't settle down in the travel quick enough in the corners.  Just some ideas to help. You have enough size and weight that the bike should go exactly where you point it and rail the corners. Cam.

[hughes]

Bearing loading is usually not and adjustment!  Correct me if I am wrong?

Alan

You can tighten the nut on the top bearing to load them both. It is supposed to cut down on head shake. I know my bike feels better with this adjustment. You can set it by removing the front number plate. Tie some fishing line around the upper fork tube and connect a small fish scale to the other end. It should take about 4-6 lbs to pull the front end to one side(BIKE ON A STAND AND FRONT TIRE OFF THE GROUND). I got that out of magazine they were going over on how to set up a bike.

[hughes]

Hughes,
  A couple of more things that might work. First, what tire are you running?  Also, can you run your bar clamps forward like the newer KX.  Turning the bar clamp around so the offset is forward moves the bars (and the riders weight) forward 1/2". It helped a lot on mine.  My 92 was also very particular to tire type when around ruts.  Took me 3 tries to get a front tire that did what I wanted.  Before that ruts were death.  Do your forks feel stiff? I am not familiar with the forks on your bike but owned a CR500 of the same year (Showa vs your Kayaba). With most cartridge forks, any oil stiffer than 10wt makes them work poorly.  Not sure what is recommended but the 15wt sounds like it might be too thick especially with the .46 springs.  It might be that the forks don't settle down in the travel quick enough in the corners.  Just some ideas to help. You have enough size and weight that the bike should go exactly where you point it and rail the corners. Cam.

I'm running the Maxxis IT'S. I have the bar clamps turned around. The manual calls for 5wt. but the valving with the damping rod have some wear and it seemed that the 5wt. would let the fork slam through the stroke or travel. I went to 15wt. because the front end did not bottom out over jumps. Not big jumps. I think you are right about the wt oil I will try 10wt. 5 just flows to fast throught the valving. The forks got stiffer from 5wt. to 10wt. to 15wt. oil. I only ran the 10wt. oil for one ride and it was on an old school motocross track. Thanks guy's. I hope here in a week or so I can report back.

[hughes]

Update. I moved the forks up 5 more mms (15mm total) and changed to 5wt. fork oil and new bar cones WOW  . My bike handle great. Alot easyier to turn in the tight stuff and the front tire stayed where I wanted it to. I didn't get to push it to hard due a fall 30 mins after we started riding. Sprain my right wrist and dislocated my tumb. I rode 4 more hours but didn't push to hard but I rode enough that I could tell a big differance in my bikes handling. Thanks guy for all the input.