Another thread about the 05+ handling issues and questions

[kawrider]

I have been lurking for some time and have found so much great info on this site. This time i thought i would try asking for some advice from some fellow riders of the dreaded "stomp and turn" chassis. I am in a situation with my 05 250, where i am looking for any and all advice. What started out as a low hour bone stock machine that i started out with, i then went to getting my suspension revalved with stock triples, which still didn't handle that good, I then came across a set of sff forks and ride eng. clamps with 20.5mm offset from a 2012 kx250f, supposedly revavlved for my weight and riding ability, by pro circuit. I installed them and initially tried them out on a intermediate track with small jumps and mainly more of a cornering track (private track). I was impressed at how well it cornered, but i wasn't impressed with the forks. After talking to the previous owner (whom installed them on his 05 125) he stated that he dropped the oil level in the i/c by only 5cc. I took note but decided to run them at a real track. This time the bike didn't seem to corner much, if at all, better then my stock setup, forks were making noise, like the spring was hitting the fork tubes, and bottomed out a lot on some big jumps. I found out after i inspected my bike that my front tire was hitting the pipe, which may explain the noise i was hearing. Since then, i added oil and added oil to a point i quit measuring. I have gotten it to not bottom out, and probably not hit the pipe as much, but the handling isn't nothing i would brag about, AT ALL. So i am curious about the lowering link, does it help that much? will it get me greatly improved front end bite? I have contacted kuobalink, and asked questions about the 2 options they have, versus the pc model. Also, should i stick with the stock clamps and have my forks revalved by someone else? (i did buy a stock set of 02 clamps i haven't tried yet) or should i stick with the 20.5 sff fork combo? Right now, i am at a crossroads with this bike, my pride wants to stick by it and make it right, but my wallet and patience is getting tired too. FYI, i am aware of some guys cutting and rewelding their steering stem. I am not opposed to going this route, but i don't have any known place nearby that i know of to do it. From what i have read, this is the correct fix, but is it going to corner close to, or as good as a yz? Thank you in advance for any and all feedback!

[SS109]

...he stated that he dropped the oil level in the i/c by only 5cc...

Are you talking about the cartridge? If so, I've never known one that you can just subtract oil from. They are to be filled and bled to hold a certain amount of oil to operate properly. If so, get this fixed.

...forks were making noise, like the spring was hitting the fork tubes, and bottomed out a lot on some big jumps...

If it was the cartridge, the reduced oil would make it where not all the air is out and gives a clunking sound.

Lastly, what have you done to the rear? I know some front end problems can be directly attributed to the rear. What's your sag set at? Have you played with it since the new forks?

[umberto]

I have been lurking for some time and have found so much great info on this site. This time i thought i would try asking for some advice from some fellow riders of the dreaded "stomp and turn" chassis. I am in a situation with my 05 250, where i am looking for any and all advice. What started out as a low hour bone stock machine that i started out with, i then went to getting my suspension revalved with stock triples, which still didn't handle that good, I then came across a set of sff forks and ride eng. clamps with 20.5mm offset from a 2012 kx250f, supposedly revavlved for my weight and riding ability, by pro circuit. I installed them and initially tried them out on a intermediate track with small jumps and mainly more of a cornering track (private track). I was impressed at how well it cornered, but i wasn't impressed with the forks. After talking to the previous owner (whom installed them on his 05 125) he stated that he dropped the oil level in the i/c by only 5cc. I took note but decided to run them at a real track. This time the bike didn't seem to corner much, if at all, better then my stock setup, forks were making noise, like the spring was hitting the fork tubes, and bottomed out a lot on some big jumps. I found out after i inspected my bike that my front tire was hitting the pipe, which may explain the noise i was hearing. Since then, i added oil and added oil to a point i quit measuring. I have gotten it to not bottom out, and probably not hit the pipe as much, but the handling isn't nothing i would brag about, AT ALL. So i am curious about the lowering link, does it help that much? will it get me greatly improved front end bite? I have contacted kuobalink, and asked questions about the 2 options they have, versus the pc model. Also, should i stick with the stock clamps and have my forks revalved by someone else? (i did buy a stock set of 02 clamps i haven't tried yet) or should i stick with the 20.5 sff fork combo? Right now, i am at a crossroads with this bike, my pride wants to stick by it and make it right, but my wallet and patience is getting tired too. FYI, i am aware of some guys cutting and rewelding their steering stem. I am not opposed to going this route, but i don't have any known place nearby that i know of to do it. From what i have read, this is the correct fix, but is it going to corner close to, or as good as a yz? Thank you in advance for any and all feedback!

KXDino is the resident expert on that chassis, and he has commented that the main issue with the 2005-2007 KX250 was the change in rake from the previous models.  They went from a 26 degree rake in 2004 to a 27 degree rake in 2005 without a change in triple clamp offset.  He says that you can modify the frame to 26.5 degrees and make the bikes handle much better.  If you can get the bike to handle with the stock suspension, that would fix your other issues.  Maybe he will get on and confirm or post some pictures of one he has modified.  He also had some suggestions on offset and lowering links in other posts, but I've forgotten what he said.  I think he raced those bikes quite a bit.

As for the SFF forks, when I wanted to put newer model forks on my 03 the guys at Stillwell told me to avoid the SFF fork.  They said they could never get them set up just right, and that the previous two spring forks were much better when re-valved.  Another suspension shop may tell you different, but that was their two cents.

[kawrider]

...he stated that he dropped the oil level in the i/c by only 5cc... [/quote]

Are you talking about the cartridge?

Yes i meant the cartridge  

If so, I've never known one that you can just subtract oil from. They are to be filled and bled to hold a certain amount of oil to operate properly. If so, get this fixed.

 The previous owner told me that he drew 5 cc right from the bleed screw, at that point, i added 5 cc roughly and noticed a very small difference. At that point, i added 2 more sets of 5cc a piece and somewhere i added an unmeasurable amount.

...forks were making noise, like the spring was hitting the fork tubes, and bottomed out a lot on some big jumps...

If it was the cartridge, the reduced oil would make it where not all the air is out and gives a clunking sound.

It is certainly coming from either the right fork, or the tire hitting the pipe. Since the above mentioned oil adjustments were added, i only heard it once off a hard landing... mind you, this was out in the sand dunes and not a good hard rutted jump, but a hard landing regardless.

Lastly, what have you done to the rear?

so far, i had it revalved and resprung for my weight. My original suspension guy admitted after watching me at the track, that he should have gone with the gold valve instead of revalving with stock parts(due to lack of adjustment range). This was yet another thing that bugged me about this person, simply because i told him about bottoming resistance i needed for some of the bigger jumps in the sand dunes, and also my not so flying low jumping style   Also, maybe someone else has this problem with this particular chassis, since the 1st day i rode it, the rebound in the rear is just flat. I usually tend to seat bounce on occasion and i don't get the kick. My suspension guy had the rebound turned all the way in. I know some front end problems can be directly attributed to the rear.

What's your sag set at? Have you played with it since the new forks?

you are spot on, it is very sensitive on sag. last time we spent time dialing it in, we found 105mm to be a decent balance, but i would say decent, in a not so decent way. Since the new forks went on, i haven't played much with it yet, but it still feels like the same handling bike as before. I am unsure with these forks and if they are worth spending time and money on. I primarily got them as i bent a lower fork on the originals, and these came with that "desired 22mm offset clamps" which turned out to have 20.5mm stamped on the bottom of them  
[/quote]

[kawrider]

KXDino is the resident expert on that chassis, and he has commented that the main issue with the 2005-2007 KX250 was the change in rake from the previous models.

Yes, i have read his and others comments and now if i could find a local trusted welding shop, capable of this task.  

If you can get the bike to handle with the stock suspension, that would fix your other issues.

That is my concern, can it, and will i gel with it    

He also had some suggestions on offset and lowering links in other posts

I need to go back and find the posts, again

but I've forgotten what he said.

You and me both  

As for the SFF forks, when I wanted to put newer model forks on my 03 the guys at Stillwell told me to avoid the SFF fork.  They said they could never get them set up just right, and that the previous two spring forks were much better when re-valved.  Another suspension shop may tell you different, but that was their two cents.

I will have to do more research (i will take note), so far with my above mentioned oil adjustment they do pretty good, however, i haven't taken them on a rutted moto track nor have i had a expert dial these in for me, i don't want to spend the money on them to find out that i don't like them either.
 I don't know if having the extra adjustment for preload (front end sag) will make it dial in the chassis better, or make it a more finicky bike.

[sandblaster]

There use to be another Kawrider on this site... I was a little surprised to see this user name and just had to see what he had to say after his long term absence.
Wrong guy... Oh well... Interesting thread though..

[kawrider]

There use to be another Kawrider on this site... I was a little surprised to see this user name and just had to see what he had to say after his long term absence.
Wrong guy... Oh well... Interesting thread though..

Here is a reply to my post in the introduction post...
welcome, u got the same  user id as {kaw rider} no space/in  case anybody comes knocking at your door cry grin

BTW I just did some searching, and i have seen lot's of good info you have added to the forum, Thank you!

[umberto]

I found a post where KXDino gives a little more information on his recommendations for helping these bikes handle better as far as clamps and links:

http://www.kxriders.com/forums/index.php/topic,17283.0.html

I had an 07 a few years back, and put the Pro Circuit link on it.  It helped a little bit, but I never did like the handling.  Maybe the different offset triple clamps with the link are the key.

[kawrider]

I found a post where KXDino gives a little more information on his recommendations for helping these bikes handle better as far as clamps and links:

Thanks, yea i read that post, and i also searched to find a few other good ones, still on the fence about it...

I had an 07 a few years back, and put the Pro Circuit link on it.  It helped a little bit, but I never did like the handling.  Maybe the different offset triple clamps with the link are the key.

I fear that i will share your same experience with my 05. As of now, i will need to have my forks and shock revalved again, then, buy the linkage and just hope