Author Topic: OEM Style Nuts and Bolts Source  (Read 9367 times)

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Offline Brute

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Re: OEM Style Nuts and Bolts Source
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2016, 02:23:15 AM »
I was the same way with old bolts up till this winter. Then I was informed from a local machinist / builder that over time bolts and threads stretch out of spec. Once out of spec a bolt or nut can wear away / deform / damage the threads even if the worn out of spec hardware looks good. Now I have a new box of bolts like those shown above for building with on serious projects. I still have used bolts for rinky dink projects and when needed for hand tightening assembly of works in progress.
[/quote]

Welllllll, not so much if engineered torques are followed. While there are a few exceptions (very hot items) to this, the majority of stretching happens from over torquing. I use a torque wrench for very nearly everything.
Being in aviation my entire life (stitching cloth wings at 12...) I came to appreciate proper torque and repeat use of fasteners.
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Offline manco

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Re: OEM Style Nuts and Bolts Source
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2016, 02:40:39 AM »
I am going through hardware selection now for a couple projects right now too. Some recent research I have done may be of interest in this thread. For anyone interested here is some good stuff to know when picking custom fasteners:

Aluminum is the lightest and weakest.

Titanium is the second lightest and second strongest.

Stainless steel is the heaviest though ranks between aluminum and steel strength wise.

Steel is the second heaviest and the strongest. This makes steel generally the best choice for most applications when durability is of concern over saving a few grams of weight.

In steel:

SAE Grade 5 is similar to Metric Grade 8.8

SAE Grade 8 is similar to Metric Grade 10.9

Metric grade 12.9 is stronger then SAE Grade 5 / 8 and Metric Grade 8.8 / 10.9


Titanium has its own rating system. The ratings 2 and 5 are similar to steel SAE 2 and 5 while 7 is similar to 2 but with corrosion inhibitors.


Stainless steel hardware has its own rating system. If good quality stainless steel is generally around SAE Grade 5. There are many types of stainless so its best to research before buying.


Aluminum bolts are rarely found in grades heavier then SAE 5 with most being SAE 2 at best.


It is possible to get any grade of bolt made from any material though generally the above is what is commonly found.


Mixing of fastener grades and materials is not always a good idea if done haphazardly. For instance titanium and stainless can damage steel and aluminum if installed dry so its best to use anti seize or at least some grease when assembling. Stainless installed into aluminum over time will often corroded and seize if installed dry and left unattended for some years. Even with an anti seize this may still occur. Fastener grades should be considered not just torque strength but also shear strength for various applications where force is applied laterally to the bolt for example heavily loaded side ways attached sub frame bolts vs lightly loaded upward attached front fender bolts.


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Offline manco

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Re: OEM Style Nuts and Bolts Source
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2016, 03:00:14 AM »
I was the same way with old bolts up till this winter. Then I was informed from a local machinist / builder that over time bolts and threads stretch out of spec. Once out of spec a bolt or nut can wear away / deform / damage the threads even if the worn out of spec hardware looks good. Now I have a new box of bolts like those shown above for building with on serious projects. I still have used bolts for rinky dink projects and when needed for hand tightening assembly of works in progress.

Welllllll, not so much if engineered torques are followed. While there are a few exceptions (very hot items) to this, the majority of stretching happens from over torquing. I use a torque wrench for very nearly everything.
Being in aviation my entire life (stitching cloth wings at 12...) I came to appreciate proper torque and repeat use of fasteners.
[/quote]

If engineered torques are followed is the catch. I am not saying that it isn't possible to take care of bolts. I am just saying that used hardware removed from beat up parts or project bikes probably isn't the best choice to install into a bike build that matters and/or is of value. Very few if any DIY or Pro mechanics work on dirt bikes to aviation specs let alone OEM factory specs. This combined with the general abuse that essentially all dirt bikes will see in their life pretty much throws engineered torque values out the window. Once a dirt bike has left the factory and been ridden to the point of "parts or project" its pretty much a guarantee that not only will it have some stretched bolts but will also have damaged threads, tweaked fasteners, ect. Most average good condition used dirt bikes have some hardware related quirks too even if only a few years old. That is just the nature of dirt bikes. Once a bike leaves the factory all bets are off on engineered torque values being followed. This combined with the abuse a dirt bike will see from average riding leaves some hardware questionable after the first 50 hours of a bike's life and most hardware questionable after 100 hours of use.

In addition to the machinist pointing out the obvious too me, I have stripped over 20 bikes the past few years salvaging parts for various projects including a couple bikes with only around 30-50 hours since new. Every bike I pulled apart had some bad hardware. Anything that felt or looked bad got tossed. What appeared good was saved and as noted will be used for various projects though not on any project that matters. If it matters new hardware is the only way to go to ensure engineered torques were, are and will be followed.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 03:23:44 AM by manco »
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Offline Brute

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Re: OEM Style Nuts and Bolts Source
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2016, 04:26:11 AM »
Hey! You left out bronze fasteners!  :lol:
And that is the catch. Over torque and abuse or loose and banging around.
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Offline Foxx4Beaver

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Re: OEM Style Nuts and Bolts Source
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2016, 06:46:22 AM »
way too much thought and BS being put into this....I keep old bolts around just in case I myself, or a buddy needs one to get him or myself through the day of riding...not replace for long lengths of time. 
Excuse me, ma'am...but you've got extremely nice legs!!!...what time do they open???                                                                                                               https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8tCgN3aryQ

Offline Brute

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Re: OEM Style Nuts and Bolts Source
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2016, 07:52:59 AM »
 :lol:
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